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-   -   Ballasting a Riffe Gun (http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=140458)

splitfish 02-11-2012 09:07 PM

Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
A friend brought their Riffe Islander gun in today and wanted to add weight to the front of the gun because of excessive muzzle flip. I built a quick mold and melted some lead. It worked out really slick! Check it out...

http://www.neptonicsystems.com/Mold1.jpg
http://www.neptonicsystems.com/Mold 2.jpg
http://www.neptonicsystems.com/riffe ballasting.jpg

Putmeincoach 02-11-2012 09:13 PM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
That is bad ass, good thinking.

cancunspearo 02-11-2012 09:15 PM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
niiiceee! how does the lead is attached to the gun by the muzzle reinforcement?

cancunspearo 02-11-2012 09:15 PM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
nevermind i juat saw its one piece LOl

Stick 'EM 02-12-2012 12:07 AM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
Is there a band missing where the plug sits, or just that much spare space in the band slot from the factory? If so why is there that much extra space in the band slot?
If not....doesn't removing a band (to make a spot for the ballast weight get rid of muzzle jump anyhow? Just curious as there wasn't much explanation. Nice fit on the mold either way.

Jamil 02-12-2012 12:19 AM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
smaaart and simple Josh. i loved this idea. wish i thought about it when i was using my 10+ wooden Riffe guns :) Riffe makes kick a@# great guns.

phil herranen 02-12-2012 01:20 AM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stick 'EM (Post 1609249)
Is there a band missing where the plug sits, or just that much spare space in the band slot from the factory? If so why is there that much extra space in the band slot?
If not....doesn't removing a band (to make a spot for the ballast weight get rid of muzzle jump anyhow? Just curious as there wasn't much explanation. Nice fit on the mold either way.

you can stuff 4 bands in a island muzzle ,but it will kick like a mule with 4 bands and no wings .4bands and a wing set and it shoots much better . with 3 bands and no wings it will still kick a bit but is more controllable ,adding a couple oz of lead will only help.
phil

splitfish 02-12-2012 01:37 AM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stick 'EM (Post 1609249)
Is there a band missing where the plug sits, or just that much spare space in the band slot from the factory? If so why is there that much extra space in the band slot?
If not....doesn't removing a band (to make a spot for the ballast weight get rid of muzzle jump anyhow? Just curious as there wasn't much explanation. Nice fit on the mold either way.

From the riffe factory the riffe island gun is a three band gun according to the riffe website.

Eraygunz 02-12-2012 07:48 AM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
That looks great,super job!

los mentirosos 02-12-2012 09:35 AM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
I'd be interested to know what the owner thinks after shooting the ballasted gun? Has this significantly reduced the muzzle flip? Is the front of the gun now so out of balance it's solving one problem while creating another. What is the approximate weight of the casting used. The reason I'm asking is I have an older Rife that looks like it would be equivalent to the #4. It is impossible for me to control the muzzle flip when loading all 3 bands on it. If this works I may try it too. Thanks!

splitfish 02-12-2012 10:35 AM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by los mentirosos (Post 1609355)
I'd be interested to know what the owner thinks after shooting the ballasted gun? Has this significantly reduced the muzzle flip? Is the front of the gun now so out of balance it's solving one problem while creating another. What is the approximate weight of the casting used. The reason I'm asking is I have an older Rife that looks like it would be equivalent to the #4. It is impossible for me to control the muzzle flip when loading all 3 bands on it. If this works I may try it too. Thanks!

The ballast is 3.5 ounces. We're are target shooting the ballasted gun today to see how it does. Every teak speargun I've made with a similar profile and length to a Riffe has required ballast. Maybe some other gun builders can chime in.

Stick 'EM 02-12-2012 10:42 AM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by phil herranen (Post 1609289)
you can stuff 4 bands in a island muzzle ,but it will kick like a mule with 4 bands and no wings .4bands and a wing set and it shoots much better . with 3 bands and no wings it will still kick a bit but is more controllable ,adding a couple oz of lead will only help.
phil

Got it, Thanks

stevemc1 02-12-2012 10:58 PM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
The reason why those old Riffes kicked up is because of poor geometry. The bands are not aligned with the spear. The more power, the worse it is. The lead will help with a band or maybe 2, but not 3. A speargun should push back, not up. The wings work by lifting the bands up to align them, but they are a poor thing, they cause huge drag moving the gun around. A simple stainless steel rod set just under the track about 1/4" and sticking out about 1 1/2" on each side, that the bands could go over would help immensly with this problem, and make the gun very accurate and easy to move underwater. It is always a lot better to start with a gun that shoots right, than to try and fix it later.

2fishin2 02-13-2012 12:58 AM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
Im by far an expert with this however have had first hand experience with this situation.

I use to shoot a Riffe No Ka Oi. I shot a stock 7mm flopper shaft (sometimes 8mm slip tip) with 3 X 5/8 bands. It kicked like a mule. I drilled a hole on the bottom of the gun near the muzzle added lead (dont remember how much) and the kick virtually stopped. Didnt add any "wings" or whatever they are to lift bands....

I now have a 140cm Aimrite King Venom with 8mm shaft and 3 X 5/8 bands. It might be the heaviest railgun out there. Very little kick at all and it is shot one-handed.

My point is I dont know about the wing theory and band alignment. From my personal experience its all about the weight and balance of the gun for recoil. I believe the wings can also assist with the recoil by providing the opposing lift resistence to the front of the gun when it kicks up. However I believe that to be minimal when compared the the proper weight in the nose.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong just pointing out my personal experience with the guns I have owned.

Jamil 02-13-2012 03:00 PM

Re: Ballasting a Riffe Gun
 
When I asked Jay Riffe why didn't he add lead inside the stock he mentioned that it weakens the stock; and he is 100% for wings+lead inside them on his guns to solve the muzzle flip. I have shot the riffe wing kits (high density foam and teak) both are great for alining the bands on the riffe and reducing flip (which is what they are designed for). I agree that it makes the gun more difficult to handle.

If you are really after getting max power with min recoil on your riffe you can always modify your gun with the option you find works best. There are endless after market options you can improvise on your riffe; which am assuming Jay wont mind you doing as long as you already bought his gun :) it's like customizing/adding juice to your muscle car.

I believe Josh's approach is a very simple, easy to instal/remove on your riffe to add more ballast. I love it and would recommend it for those who don't like flip and don't want wings.

my 2cents.

Regards
Jamil


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