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-   -   Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns (http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=191747)

TonyEynon 03-24-2018 04:34 AM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fredfoes (Post 2164078)
Hello les gens.


It should also be noted that the 135 vela is equipped with 1.8 mm monoline while the 130 with 2 mm spectra.

In the latter case, the hydrodinamic drag is much larger

Would it really have that much drag? The difference was quite significant really..

Satdiver 03-24-2018 07:54 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
I made some video’s of testing my 135 vela in the pool at 6, 7 and 8mts. But can’t seem to be able upload the videos. Maybe someone can tell me the best format to have the video’s in to upload them.
The shaft I’m using in the test is hunt 10mm x 170cm double offset flopper shaft.
I’m using 1.5mm wire cable in the video’s and doesn’t seem to make any difference from 2.2mm mono I have used previously.
The gun is very well balanced for such a heavy shaft.
There is lead in the handle as well as the stainless plates at the bottom of the hanble and air pockets in the front of the gun to give floatation.
I have tried 2mm wire cable and there seems to be a drop of about 100mm at 7mts.
This gun has amazing power with almost no recoil.

Diving Gecko 03-24-2018 11:07 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Satdiver (Post 2164111)
I made some video’s of testing my 135 vela in the pool at 6, 7 and 8mts. But can’t seem to be able upload the videos.

Upload them to youtube or vimeo and share the link here, that should work.
As for format, normally H264 works but most editing softwares have export presets now, so you can just use something that sounds "popular". Like 1089 for youtube or possibly a Mac export format like exporting for Apple TV or similar.
Youtube normally reformats it anyways after you have uploaded. But you can actually google which format youtube prefers.

TonyEynon 03-25-2018 01:17 AM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Satdiver (Post 2164111)
I made some video’s of testing my 135 vela in the pool at 6, 7 and 8mts. But can’t seem to be able upload the videos. Maybe someone can tell me the best format to have the video’s in to upload them.
The shaft I’m using in the test is hunt 10mm x 170cm double offset flopper shaft.
I’m using 1.5mm wire cable in the video’s and doesn’t seem to make any difference from 2.2mm mono I have used previously.
The gun is very well balanced for such a heavy shaft.
There is lead in the handle as well as the stainless plates at the bottom of the hanble and air pockets in the front of the gun to give floatation.
I have tried 2mm wire cable and there seems to be a drop of about 100mm at 7mts.
This gun has amazing power with almost no recoil.

Fantastic mate, thanks for taking to the time to do it. Yeah Youtube or vimeo is super easy to upload to. If you want to send me the files with 'wetransfer.com' I can quickly edit and upload them for you no worries, just pm me and I'll send you my email... :toast:

willstroo 03-25-2018 07:13 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
Yes cant wait to see this!

kon 05-07-2018 03:59 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
I'd like to share my experience with these Alemanni guns. I've been trying different guns over the last year to see which perform best for me. I prefer rear handle guns, and what I found is that as I powered a gun up or moved from 2 bands to 3 bands, my accuracy started to suffer. Everything seemed ok in my pool testing, but I had unexplained misses when I was in the ocean. I read about "recoil tolerance" in other threads and I concluded that I don't have a lot of recoil tolerance. I like to be able to shoot my gun without extending my arm, having to lock my elbow, etc. I basically want to fire my gun in any position without affecting accuracy.

With that in mind, I decided to buy the Alemanni Stilo Express 115 Carbon Double Roller and took it to La Paz in April. Over 4 days I took 18 shots, hit 17 fish and only missed 1 hail mary shot. I haven't been in the sport long but I've certainly never had that kind of accuracy before. Aside from the lack of recoil, the gun is designed in a way where the bands don't obstruct the sight picture and the muzzle is tall which makes lining up shots very easy. The gun doesn't take much longer to load than a standard 3 band gun. I absolutely love it and it's my new all around reef and blue water gun.

After that experience, I decided to buy the Vela 135 Special for my Panama trip last week. My Vela didn't require a booster band like other Vela guns. With the single wishbone, it propelled a 10mm shaft diagonally across my pool and the shaft almost went completely through the 5 epoxied yoga mat target. Only a couple inches of the shaft were sticking out of the front of the target and the tip almost hit the plywood set up to protect the pool walls. I didn't measure how far the shot was but I sat as far back in the corner as possible and the pool is 30x15 feet, so diagonally the shot should have been around 8 meters. The shots had a bit of left shift but no shaft drop at all. In fact, the shot was a bit higher than where I aimed it. I remember reading that the Alemanni guns may have a ramp at the muzzle to angle the shafts upward, so maybe mine was designed in a way that didn't require a booster band to keep the shaft from angling low.

I used the Vela in Panama last week and shot my first tuna. I also shot several other fish and had great shot placement with all of them. The gun looks harder to load than it is... I don't think it takes longer to load than a standard tuna gun. It has the same muzzle that makes it easy to aim, and no recoil and no bands to obstruct the sight picture. It basically has the same great qualities I liked in the Stilo, but with a 10mm shaft and a longer shooting distance for large blue water fish.

The only downside I see with the guns is all of the parts and pulleys, especially on the Vela. If something breaks, it may not be possible to fix on a trip. I contacted Alemanni to see if I can order a set of spare parts to have on hand. And yes, the guns are expensive, but considering how much we invest in travel and charters, I don't think it's unreasonable to spend extra for a gun that results in better accuracy and more landed fish.

Everyone is different and different guns will perform differently depending on the shooter. I'm happy I took the time to explore my options and find guns that I'm comfortable and consistently accurate with. I couldn't be happier with Alemanni and the quality of their guns :toast:

willstroo 05-07-2018 10:58 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kon (Post 2167833)
And yes, the guns are expensive, but considering how much we invest in travel and charters, I don't think it's unreasonable to spend extra for a gun that results in better accuracy and more landed fish.

Ain't that the truth, summarised perfectly! Come people like Toyotas, some like Mercedes. The worth of the product is subjectible, they all get you there.

Enjoy those masterpieces, i for one am jealous of that quiver :toast:

Behslayer 05-16-2018 12:48 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
Great Review KON. Il Maestro is held in the highest esteem amongst gun builders.

I do think there can be a disconnect between Pool Testing and Field Testing. Especially with bigger guns. Maybe over in Europe, specifically for hunting Bluefin along the Reef, guys will practice Aspetto with a 'Tuna Gun' but it never happens to me. I almost never shoot a 3 band gun let alone a 4 band gun while holding the reef.. For Pool testing to be more accurate when it comes to bigger guns, the shots should be taken mid water. Recoil Tolerance is partially related to style of hunting and shooting. Some people move forward in alignment, some people give a push in anticipation of the recoil. Another element of Recoil Tolerance is size and strength. If you constantly shoot guns, you can build up your recoil tolerance just like many other forms of tolerance. Some people can pull trains with their teeth. Some can kick and bend metal beams. The most common cause of inaccuracy for your 3 band set up is that you are experiencing more recoil than you personally can control. Easiest way to reduce is to drop your Shaft diameter. If you are using an 8.5mm, try an 8mm. If your bands are at 380%, try 350%. Only accurate guns are interesting and you are still going to have atleast 22' vs 25' of kill range which is within what you are normally going to be taking a responsible shot at.

But moving over to the Alemannis has obviously worked for you. 10mm shafts? Dang when are we going to see more videos?

kon 05-16-2018 01:24 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
Yes while I think pool testing is invaluable to help a shooter become familiar with their gun, there's certainly a chance the gun will perform differently in the ocean. It's also not impossible that, for a particular shooter, a gun that seems to perform badly in the pool at long distances may actually work great in the ocean at shorter distances. And I agree, with time and practice I would have likely grown into my standard guns and become accustomed to the recoil. But, I only have a few opportunities a year to use the guns when I travel, and with a lot of down time in between trips. After having used the Alemannis on only a couple of trips, I'm confident they were the better short-term and long-term choice for me.

Also, I made the mistake of overpowering my guns right away and cutting the 14.5mm bands at over 380%. I even tried the 15mm gray/amber bands at the same stretch and it was no surprise that the guns were explosive and difficult to shoot accurately. In hindsight, I should have started with 14mm bands cut at 350% to get comfortable before adding power, especially considering that there's still plenty of range and power at that band stretch.

As for video, I was in a rush prior to my Panama trip and didn't bother recording. I also didn't have anything larger than a 2 band gun on hand to compare with. But a friend now wants to pool test his new 4 band 67" Sea Sniper (one of the last ones built), so if we have an opportunity to do that, we'll certainly get it and the Vela on video.

kavachi 05-16-2018 06:37 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
great review Kon! thanks for taking the time to share :up:

and bloody nice yellowfin! musta felt good landing that after all that bluewater gun groundwork

kon 05-17-2018 12:09 AM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
Thanks Kavachi! Never having landed a tuna or fish that big before, it took a while for it to sink in and I was certainly happy, and not just with the fish and Vela but with all of the other gear and rigging I researched and prepped for the trip. On that note, I'd like to point out again the treasure trove of information contained here on spearboard. I read through countless threads over the last couple of years and learned tons about guns, rigging, technique, etc. I still have so much to learn, but there's no way I'd be as informed as I am now without spearboard. Very grateful to all of the folks who have regularly posted and contributed here :toast:

musubi 06-04-2020 02:48 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
What are the benefits with band group 2 pre-stretch vs pre-stretching a fixed pair of bands on the underside? Sorry if I missed this earlier.

One would be pre-stretching a longer band (group 2) vs a shorter band, where I'd think a longer band would hold a maintain a higher band force over the same contracting distance if both were stretched to the same pull force. But I suppose you could just put more pre-stretch in the shorter band.
Just trying to better understand the design here.

Also, general question, at what point or what situation would the kicker band be needed or used? Other than contributing to more recoil, couldn't you create the same exit shaft velocity as an invert gun without a kicker band and it be the same?

gspearguns 06-04-2020 05:47 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by musubi (Post 2198413)
What are the benefits with band group 2 pre-stretch vs pre-stretching a fixed pair of bands on the underside? Sorry if I missed this earlier.

If group 2 wouldn't be prestreched, how will you load it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by musubi (Post 2198413)
One would be pre-stretching a longer band (group 2) vs a shorter band, where I'd think a longer band would hold a maintain a higher band force over the same contracting distance if both were stretched to the same pull force. But I suppose you could just put more pre-stretch in the shorter band.
Just trying to better understand the design here.

Group 2 have more space for prestreching than other bottom bands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by musubi (Post 2198413)
Also, general question, at what point or what situation would the kicker band be needed or used? Other than contributing to more recoil, couldn't you create the same exit shaft velocity as an invert gun without a kicker band and it be the same?

I am using 14 or 15 mm kicker bands on my guns (guns I made) and recoil is really very small from that single band, but shaft speed is better than without it. Without it the system is sluggish in my opinion. High streching factor is not needed on kicker band.

musubi 06-04-2020 07:12 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gspearguns (Post 2198416)
If group 2 wouldn't be prestreched, how will you load it?

Thanks for your replies.
My question here, in another way, is asking what's the point of Alemanni's design having the pre-stretched bands roll over to the top? I understand that group 2 is the pre-stretch, but why put it into a longer band? Take your Gladiator Bestiarius 110 for example, where I'm guessing your single red band is for the initial load-up w/ pre-stretch. Are there pro and/cons to what you did vs group 2 bands of Alemanni's guns?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gspearguns (Post 2198416)
Group 2 have more space for prestreching than other bottom bands.

While I understand that group 2 has more space for pre-stretching, what are the benefits of this vs pre-stretching the shorter bottom bands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gspearguns (Post 2198416)
I am using 14 or 15 mm kicker bands on my guns (guns I made) and recoil is really very small from that single band, but shaft speed is better than without it. Without it the system is sluggish in my opinion. High streching factor is not needed on kicker band.

Thanks for your insight on this. Especially with wooden guns with more mass than pipes, I can see having a kicker band not contributing much recoil. Perhaps kicker bands are helpful in giving more speed/power when band real estate on the bottom is used up, or don't want to place any further effort into loading larger bottom bands. What size bands are you using on the bottom?

popgun pete 06-04-2020 07:49 PM

Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns
 
2 Attachment(s)
The top and bottom deck barrel wrapping band gives a longer pull at elevated force levels because during the shot you only use a small part of it. The other advantage is the band does not have the guts stretched out of it being always under tension on the gun.

On Kosta's gun you see the same long bands running top and bottom, but on his gun the stretched bands are hidden in troughs under the barrel.
http://www.spearboard.com/attachment...7&d=1591321751


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