MAKO and Wong: Reels, Shafts & Tips

[Knoah15]

Originally Posted by MAKO Spearguns

Hey 2fishing2,
Good question. Please allow me to explain…

WHY ARE OUR PRICES LOWER?

Our prices are lower because we sell direct to the public, not through dive shops.
And, anybody selling gear in Hawaii, like Daryl, pays huge shipping costs and a higher tax.

Spearfishing companies who sell through dive shops surely sell a lot more gear than us. And, dive shops provide a valuable service to their local divers and they deserve to make money for adequately servicing their customers.

We just like our smaller business model and enjoy selling direct and getting to know our customers.

So don’t just compare our prices….. Compare our products.

KEEP READING…THIS WILL GET MORE INTERESTING.

Some of the products we offer are even higher in quality than more expensive products offered by other spearfishing companies.

For example, have a look at our MAKO YAMAMOTO WETSUITS:

MAKO YAMAMOTO WETSUITS:
Our MAKO Yamamoto wetsuits are made with the absolute best, and most expensive, neoprene material in the world, ”YAMAMOTO NEOPRENE”. And, MAKO suits are manufactured by the same factory that makes wetsuits for
three other internationally recognized and very well respected companies in the spearfishing industry.

Even our freedive socks and gloves are made out of “YAMAMOTO” neoprene material. What other spearfishing company uses YAMAMOTO material to make their gloves and socks? I don’t think there are any that go to this extent to ensure this type of quality for their gloves and socks.

It costs us more for these higher quality suits, gloves and socks. But, it does not cost you more because you are buying direct from MAKO.


Some of our products, however, are the exact same products that are offered by several other well respected spearfishing companies.

Have you ever seen competing spearfishing companies selling the same dive knife?

Or fins?

Or snorkel?

How about the exact same mask?

Of course you have.

And, they were all made by the same factories. They just have a different logo. And, we just sell it for less because we sell direct.

Is our product lower in quality? Heck no! It is the same high quality product offered by several well respected spearfishing companies. They just have a different logo. MAKO is certainly not the only company doing this. Most well known and very well respected companies do it too.

Some spearfishing companies, however, do more than just sell identical or similar products made by the same factories.

For example, we at MAKO Spearguns paid to have our own foot pocket molds made. This was done by a factory that makes foot pockets and fins for MAKO, as well as three other highly respected spearfishing companies. Because of our investment, to my knowledge, we are the only company to offer a full range of foot pocket sizes from size 4-5 for ladies and kids, up to size 14-15 for Big Kahunas. These are high quality fins and foot pockets used by many top freedive instructors throughout the world. But, because we sell direct, we can sell for less. Again, we may not sell as many, but we like our current business model in getting to know our customers.

PLEASE KEEP READING…THIS TOO IS QUITE INTERESTING

MORE ON RELATIONSHIPS:
As you can see, many speargun companies, including MAKO, assemble a product line based on relationships with many different factories. This is no different than Ford, Chevy and Chrysler.

In some cases, exclusive licensing agreements are granted by factories, thus, granting certain speargun companies the exclusive rights to offer certain products in specific geographic areas or countries. For example, MAKO can ship our spearguns to any country in the world, except for South Africa, New Zealand and Australia. Those territories belong exclusively to Rabitech Spearguns. We respect our agreements and will not ship to these locations.

Some speargun companies, including MAKO, also invest in the production of their own molds and designs, thereby automatically granting them total exclusivity in all parts of the world.

CHECK THIS OUT. THIS IS INTERESTING.

There are even relationships, whereby, competing speargun companies from different countries will “partner up” with a factory to produce a product(s) with the understanding that those products would not be offered to any other speargun company.

This reminds me of that lake in Massachusetts called, “Chargoggagoggmanchauggogoggchaubunagungamaug g”. That’s right. That is the name of the lake. To my understanding, this is an Indian name which means,

“You fish on your side of the lake”.

“I fish on my side of the lake”.

“And nobody fishes in the middle”.

To a certain extent, we (speargun companies) often know where our competitors are getting certain products made. To a certain extent, we know what factory is making which company’s wetsuits, knives, masks, etc. Many of the main companies know what factory makes the MAKO wetsuits, MAKO spears, MAKO knives, etc. They also know what materials I am using. How do they know this? Because they are, in many cases, using the same factories as MAKO.

PLEASE KEEP READING. MORE ON RELATIONSHIPS

Having your competitor using the same factories as you is not really a bad thing.

As I mentioned above, if I am out of a certain size spear, slip tip or reel, I will send my customer to Daryl Wong. Who else is better suited to care for my customers than Daryl. The guy is a legend.

Here is another example. If I am running low on neoprene freedive socks, and my main shipment is not scheduled to ship to me for another month, I can have an emergency order of freedive socks shipped with my competitors shipment that is shipping much sooner.

Conversely, the same can happen with one of my competitors, who can include some urgently needed product packed in with a MAKO shipment.

In fact, in the morning, I am headed to Dulles Airport to pick up a shipment. Included in my shipment are items for my competitor. As soon as I get these items back to my warehouse, I will pull out the stuff going to my competitor, repackage it and ship it via UPS. And, check this out….. I do it for free. Why? Because it is the decent thing to do.

So, if you do some research, you will quickly discover that many of the high quality products sold by MAKO are similar or identical to those sold by other well established companies in the industry.

Did these companies copy MAKO? NO.
Did MAKO copy these companies? NO.


The MARKETING rather than the MANUFACTURING is the only thing that is different about these products. Of course, we also offer a number of high quality products available exclusively from MAKO.

And, there a number of high quality products offered exclusively by my well respected competitors.

PLEASE KEEP READING. I PROMISE! I AM ALMOST DONE!

So, just because our prices are lower, that does not mean we are some large company that is in the mass sales market, offering lower quality goods.

We are actually the exact opposite. We have a store in Virginia, a store in La Paz, Mexico, and our products are also available at Puerto Rico Freedivers owned by expert Spearo and all around great guy, Roberto Reyes.

Here in our showroom, in Virginia we have 5 full timers, Josh, Brad, Billy, Dan, and, myself, Dano.

As many of you know, we pride ourselves on customer service and enjoy building relationships with our customers and the diving community.

We support dive clubs from one end of the country to the other by sponsorship of their tournaments with guns and gear.

We also support other non profits such as The Blue Wild, hosted by Sheri Daye, Diving For A Cause headed by Colleen Gallagher and other very important causes.

And, equally important, we will always show respect for our many deserving competitors who also donate and give so much back to the diving and spearfishing community.

As I mentioned before, I will never mention the name of another spearfishing company unless it is complimentary in nature.

Sorry I was so long winded, but I thought I would use this opportunity to address other incorrect posts that I have seen as well.

Besides, I thought this might be interesting reading.


Dive safe,
Dano
MAKO Spearguns

Now THAT explained some unanswered questions. I'm definitely retracting any previous or libelous comments that I made about mako.

[ny_er]

Originally Posted by Teamdiesel

I have not come across a coated spring steel shaft that hasn't rusted shortly after use. I will never buy another shaft again unless it is stainless steel. Obviously you guys that use them do not do much hunting around reefs. That coating comes off like the peel of a banana.

agree with you 100%

you can get away with the rusty shafts on a pipe gun, but with the enclosed I have switched to all stainless uht shafts, they are strong as SA shaft but don't rust

[Nix]

Originally Posted by Teamdiesel

No matter how much I sand and spray these blasted spring steel shafts, they always rust right back up.

If you sand a spring steel shaft you remove the protective coating. The idea has to be to take care of it from the get go and when rust starts somewhere just tolerate it to an extent. All I do is was my spears with fresh water after dives and occasionally wipe with oil. If you try to remove rust by sanding you will get a fully rusted spear very soon.

[Daryl Wong]

Aloha,

This is the only time I'll post on anything about my gear since it is mentioned in a few threads. And I'm under "restrictions".

I was the first to come out with a spring steel shaft to fit American style mechanisms. Spearmaster was able to build a shaft to my specifications.

Years ago, I could see the benefits of a European style spring steel shaft vs a Stailess shaft. Cost, Stiffness, performance. So in the beginning I would have a friend weld shark fin tabs onto my RA spring steel shafts. Once I was convinced that the pros out weighted the cons I started on a quest to have them built.
It took me four years to find a source that could build the spring steel shafts to my specs. First with Rob Allen who didn't have the technology to weld sharkfins and then with my present manufacturer spearmaster. Florida freedivers Mike Damms who's from SA happened to be in SA back home visiting and knew the owner. He found out about my shafts and was able to talk the company into selling to him and become their US distributor. A shipment of shafts to Florida Freedivers had my barbs on them. They were reversed and my logo and name was on the inside of the barb. I found out from some friends who bought shafts and notified me. Mako found out and went down to SA and got the company to sell to him too. They would need shafts like this for the "hybrid" they were coming out with. Since they didn't need American styled shafts for their guns. And seeing that these shafts are a great alternative to the Stainless shafts that they could offer these for sale too.

The only reason you never heard this from me is that I don't advertise or push my products on Spear board. Only my customers or those that have seen my shafts at the expos knows about them since I am not a sponsor on SB and don't want to be. I'm just a guy that likes to do my own thing and stay away from drama.

I was also having my slip tips made by this SA company. Then Spearmaster decided to market slip tips like mine to a few companies but didn't do them with the tri cuts because that was my idea.
Later I started working with Spearmaster to build a reel. After it was finalized, It was then sold to a few companies including Mako. The reels were not my project but I worked on their development such as the bigger handle, more capacity and the base that I use for my reels.

So yes the shafts and slip tips were my projects that later became available to other manufacturers. Mako didn't copy the reels but was able to buy basically a slightly altered version from Spearmaster.

What are my options? Don't have any. This company is the only game in town that can build the shafts right now. The problem with dealing overseas with any company is that there isn't much you can do if they turn around and sell products to other companies. I have found this out more than once. And I'm sure other companies have experienced the same. It sucks but thats how it is. This is the side of the dive business that sucks. I have the documentation of the development of the shafts that show how they came about.

Well thats about the most drama you'll get out of me on SB from now on. Oh and By the way.... KJ and Spearmaster are the same shafts. No difference in quality. Spring steel shafts will rust with time but with proper care can last a long time. Some batches rust faster than other just as Stainless shafts have Rockwell hardness that varies depending on how they were heat treated meaning some will be much softer than others. The bottom line is your standard stainless shaft is much softer than a spring steel shaft. 38-42 vs 52 for Spring steel. I wouldn't use spring steel shafts if they weren't better in performance vs a stainless shaft. To each his own. Use what you think works best for you.

Dano's a businessman and knows his stuff. I just work out of a shed. Ask anyone that has been there. haha


Aloha, Daryl

[LunkerBuster]

Daryl lil be buying you a beer at the bluewild.

Originally Posted by Daryl Wong

Aloha,

This is the only time I'll post on anything about my gear since it is mentioned in a few threads. And I'm under "restrictions".

I was the first to come out with a spring steel shaft to fit American style mechanisms. Spearmaster was able to build a shaft to my specifications.

Years ago, I could see the benefits of a European style spring steel shaft vs a Stailess shaft. Cost, Stiffness, performance. So in the beginning I would have a friend weld shark fin tabs onto my RA spring steel shafts. Once I was convinced that the pros out weighted the cons I started on a quest to have them built.
It took me four years to find a source that could build the spring steel shafts to my specs. First with Rob Allen who didn't have the technology to weld sharkfins and then with my present manufacturer spearmaster. Florida freedivers Mike Damms who's from SA happened to be in SA back home visiting and knew the owner. He found out about my shafts and was able to talk the company into selling to him and become their US distributor. A shipment of shafts to Florida Freedivers had my barbs on them. They were reversed and my logo and name was on the inside of the barb. I found out from some friends who bought shafts and notified me. Mako found out and went down to SA and got the company to sell to him too. They would need shafts like this for the "hybrid" they were coming out with. Since they didn't need American styled shafts for their guns. And seeing that these shafts are a great alternative to the Stainless shafts that they could offer these for sale too.

The only reason you never heard this from me is that I don't advertise or push my products on Spear board. Only my customers or those that have seen my shafts at the expos knows about them since I am not a sponsor on SB and don't want to be. I'm just a guy that likes to do my own thing and stay away from drama.

I was also having my slip tips made by this SA company. Then Spearmaster decided to market slip tips like mine to a few companies but didn't do them with the tri cuts because that was my idea.
Later I started working with Spearmaster to build a reel. After it was finalized, It was then sold to a few companies including Mako. The reels were not my project but I worked on their development such as the bigger handle, more capacity and the base that I use for my reels.

So yes the shafts and slip tips were my projects that later became available to other manufacturers. Mako didn't copy the reels but was able to buy basically a slightly altered version from Spearmaster.

What are my options? Don't have any. This company is the only game in town that can build the shafts right now. The problem with dealing overseas with any company is that there isn't much you can do if they turn around and sell products to other companies. I have found this out more than once. And I'm sure other companies have experienced the same. It sucks but thats how it is. This is the side of the dive business that sucks. I have the documentation of the development of the shafts that show how they came about.

Well thats about the most drama you'll get out of me on SB from now on. Oh and By the way.... KJ and Spearmaster are the same shafts. No difference in quality. Spring steel shafts will rust with time but with proper care can last a long time. Some batches rust faster than other just as Stainless shafts have Rockwell hardness that varies depending on how they were heat treated meaning some will be much softer than others. The bottom line is your standard stainless shaft is much softer than a spring steel shaft. 38-42 vs 52 for Spring steel. I wouldn't use spring steel shafts if they weren't better in performance vs a stainless shaft. To each his own. Use what you think works best for you.

Dano's a businessman and knows his stuff. I just work out of a shed. Ask anyone that has been there. haha


Aloha, Daryl

[2fishin2]

Originally Posted by Daryl Wong

Aloha,

This is the only time I'll post on anything about my gear since it is mentioned in a few threads. And I'm under "restrictions".

I was the first to come out with a spring steel shaft to fit American style mechanisms. Spearmaster was able to build a shaft to my specifications.

Years ago, I could see the benefits of a European style spring steel shaft vs a Stailess shaft. Cost, Stiffness, performance. So in the beginning I would have a friend weld shark fin tabs onto my RA spring steel shafts. Once I was convinced that the pros out weighted the cons I started on a quest to have them built.
It took me four years to find a source that could build the spring steel shafts to my specs. First with Rob Allen who didn't have the technology to weld sharkfins and then with my present manufacturer spearmaster. Florida freedivers Mike Damms who's from SA happened to be in SA back home visiting and knew the owner. He found out about my shafts and was able to talk the company into selling to him and become their US distributor. A shipment of shafts to Florida Freedivers had my barbs on them. They were reversed and my logo and name was on the inside of the barb. I found out from some friends who bought shafts and notified me. Mako found out and went down to SA and got the company to sell to him too. They would need shafts like this for the "hybrid" they were coming out with. Since they didn't need American styled shafts for their guns. And seeing that these shafts are a great alternative to the Stainless shafts that they could offer these for sale too.

The only reason you never heard this from me is that I don't advertise or push my products on Spear board. Only my customers or those that have seen my shafts at the expos knows about them since I am not a sponsor on SB and don't want to be. I'm just a guy that likes to do my own thing and stay away from drama.

I was also having my slip tips made by this SA company. Then Spearmaster decided to market slip tips like mine to a few companies but didn't do them with the tri cuts because that was my idea.
Later I started working with Spearmaster to build a reel. After it was finalized, It was then sold to a few companies including Mako. The reels were not my project but I worked on their development such as the bigger handle, more capacity and the base that I use for my reels.

So yes the shafts and slip tips were my projects that later became available to other manufacturers. Mako didn't copy the reels but was able to buy basically a slightly altered version from Spearmaster.

What are my options? Don't have any. This company is the only game in town that can build the shafts right now. The problem with dealing overseas with any company is that there isn't much you can do if they turn around and sell products to other companies. I have found this out more than once. And I'm sure other companies have experienced the same. It sucks but thats how it is. This is the side of the dive business that sucks. I have the documentation of the development of the shafts that show how they came about.

Well thats about the most drama you'll get out of me on SB from now on. Oh and By the way.... KJ and Spearmaster are the same shafts. No difference in quality. Spring steel shafts will rust with time but with proper care can last a long time. Some batches rust faster than other just as Stainless shafts have Rockwell hardness that varies depending on how they were heat treated meaning some will be much softer than others. The bottom line is your standard stainless shaft is much softer than a spring steel shaft. 38-42 vs 52 for Spring steel. I wouldn't use spring steel shafts if they weren't better in performance vs a stainless shaft. To each his own. Use what you think works best for you.

Dano's a businessman and knows his stuff. I just work out of a shed. Ask anyone that has been there. haha


Aloha, Daryl

Dr Wong this is what many of us have thought for a very long time. Thank you very much for the clarification. Your innovations over the years have been great! It just sucks that other companies have made money off the backs of generous, hardworking people like you.

[AndrewK]

some of you guys are a bunch of retards. Ill bet youd be the same people to complain about grocery stores selling less expensive store brand foods then the name brand stuff. WHO F%^&#%^ING CARES!! Get a life and dive more.

-end lurker rant.

[Knuckles]

Love every product I've purchased from Mako

[2fishin2]

Ive bought gear from Mako....Ive bought gear from Dr Wong through people who sell his equipment and I like both....just some more than others

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by AndrewK

some of you guys are a bunch of retards. Ill bet youd be the same people to complain about grocery stores selling less expensive store brand foods then the name brand stuff. WHO F%^&#%^ING CARES!! Get a life and dive more.

-end lurker rant.

Its tough to call yourself a lurker with your post count.

But in any case, I love to buy stuff cheaper, but that isn't the point. Every thing Dano said was true- he buys stuff from the same companies that Daryl Wong and Rabitech do. He is just leaving out the part about someone else developing those products, and then him piggybacking on someone else's effort to find the source and develop the product.

I don't use rail guns, but I've purchased some small stuff such as stringers, weight belts, etc. from Mako. When I've had some minor problem such as a spring that kept the stringer in its holder corroding, Dano insisted on making it right in spite of the fact that I said it wasn't a big deal. I've had nothing but great service from him. But when he makes a big deal about him and others buying the same stuff from the same manufacturers , then I think its fair to have the others get to present their point of view.

[miguelitro]

Mako has great gear at great prices with amazing customer service. DW makes arguably the worlds best guns with an untouchable customer service model. I don't see these two businesses as competing as even dw said he sold the reel design to Mako. They are at different ends of the spectrum though I am not quite sure what spectrum that is??? i would say it is a spectrum with custom(DW) at one end and mass produced at the other(Mako)
I may own both or not but we should all be happy to have more options rather than fewer.
Mike

[MAKO Spearguns]

Dear Spearos,

This is a bit of a surprise to me. In fact, this is the first time I am hearing any of this.

I disagree with Daryl’s statements about MAKO. And I disagree with his accusations towards Mike Damms of Florida Freedivers. Mike Damms is a stand up guy.

With all due respect to Daryl, I would like to give my take on the situation.

First of all, it was custom gun builder, Chad Morris who developed the spears with sharkfin tabs.

Chad started working with the factory in South Africa (now called Spearmaster) to develop a spring steel shaft with sharkfin tabs long before anybody else. The factory and Chad worked closely on this project for a number of years before getting it right. The factory spent thousands of dollars and countless hours before they got it right. When they finally got it right, Chad’s computer scanning business began to take off to a new level and he did not have time to pursue a part time business of selling spears.

At that time, I was buying all my spears from Rob Allan. Chad and Tin Man then came to me with a design for an Enclosed Track Railgun. However, we would need shafts with sharkfin tabs to make it work. So, Chad gave me the contact details to the factory in South Africa that he had been working with and I started buying my shafts from Spearmaster.

I don’t know when Daryl began buying shafts from Spearmaster, but shortly after I began getting my sharkfin shafts from Spearmaster, Mike Damms began importing them and selling them through Florida Freedivers. He called them KJ shafts. Spearmasters also began selling the shafts to another company here in the USA. Did I get upset about it? No. Mike did nothing wrong. And Spearmasters did nothing wrong by selling the shafts to Mike.

It was Spearmasters that paid for all of the research and development for the shafts. Not Mike. Not me. Not Chad. Not Daryl. Heck, Chad Morris was not even upset about it and it was Chad Morris who designed the darn shafts.

So, that is my take on the spears. Chad Morris developed the spears.

As for the reels? I object to his statement that he designed the reel. Mike Damms of Florida Freedivers and myself and Chad Morris helped design the reels with Spearmaster. Daryl probably had some input too. But, I disagree with his assessment that he designed the reel on his own. Besides, the owner of Spearmaster is a pretty smart guy. He probably asked each of us what we wanted in a reel. The fact is, none of us paid for the research and development or the molds for this reel. I did not pay for it. Daryl did not pay for it and Mike Damms did not pay for it. Spearmaster paid for it.

Now, if Daryl had paid for the mold and the design, then Daryl would have been granted the exclusive rights and neither I nor Mike Damms would have been able to sell the reels. If I paid for the mold and design, then I would have received the exclusive rights to the reel. The fact is, Spearmaster paid for it so they have the right to sell to whoever they want to sell to. We all knew this when we were giving our input on the reel. Even Daryl knew this. Now, there are 4 companies that sell this reel or a version of it in the USA and several other companies worldwide.

So, that is my take on the reels. We all probably had input on the reel.

As for the slip tips, this is the first I have heard that his slip tips have tri cut tips. Ours have pencil tips.

Getting back to my first comment, this statement from Daryl comes as quite a surprise to me. I have even had customers call me and tell me that Daryl suggested they call me for a reel, or a spear, or whatever. And, I have sent many customers to him.

So, there appears to be a bit of a discrepancy here. Perhaps Mike Damms of Florida Freedivers can weigh in on this and give us his take on the situation. And perhaps the owner of the factory or Chad Morris can shed some light on this as well. Then, maybe we can put this matter to rest and go shoot some fish.

Dive safe,
dano

[David Z]

I've bought quite a bit of gear from Mako in the past two years and have always been happy dealing with them. If they can sell the same product for a cheaper price, I say more power to them. Dano is a stand up guy.

[florfreediver]

Originally Posted by Daryl Wong

Aloha,

................ Florida freedivers Mike Damms who's from SA happened to be in SA back home visiting and knew the owner. He found out about my shafts and was able to talk the company into selling to him and become their US distributor....... Aloha, Daryl

Hey Daryl and fellow SB members,
had to respond to what Daryl stated
It is a slight misinterpretation of what really happened.

I was invited to go and visit Spearmaster on one of my South African RA trips.
The invitation was to show me his range of gear and discuss me taking some gear for Florida Freedivers. I agreed to take gear that did not clash directly with RA gear.

Not sure what JK told you but I did not have to do any talking to get him to sell me spears.

It was a case of JK telling me that the shafts were not getting the distribution he wanted because the "Dealer" in Hawaii but did not want to dsitribute them.
He certainly did not refer to them as your shafts.
He did say that we was selling them to you and others already, but there was no talk of them being Wong design or ownership.

If that had been the case I would certainly not have bought them.
It actually surprised me that you thought I was that sort of character?

At that stage I was not then a US Distributorship because he was already supplying the States and would not grant anyone sole rights to Distribute
That was the reason for me selling them under the KJ brand.
I was trying to protect my source, just like you sold them under the "Wong" brand.

It was only later when I agreed to try and become a Distributor that I then used the name Spearmaster and advertised as such at the last Blue Wild.

Your accusation of me "talking the Company into selling to me your shaft" really disappoints me.
Dano of Mako would never do that.

Mike.

[MAKO Spearguns]

Originally Posted by florfreediver

Hey Daryl and fellow SB members,
had to respond to what Daryl stated
It is a slight misinterpretation of what really happened.

I was invited to go and visit him on one of my South African RA trips.
The invitation was to show me his range of gear and discuss me taking some gear for Florida Freedivers. I agreed to take gear that did not clash directly with RA gear.

Not sure what JK told you but I did not have to do any talking to get him to sell me spears.

It was a case of JK telling me that the shafts were not getting the distribution he wanted because the "Dealer" in Hawaii but did not want to dsitribute them.
He certainly did not refer to them as your shafts.
He did say that we was selling them to you and others already, but there was no talk of them being Wong design or ownership.

If that had been the case I would certainly not have bought them.
It actually surprised me that you thought I was that sort of character?

At that stage I was not then a US Distributorship because he was already supplying the States and would not grant anyone sole rights to Distribute
That was the reason for me selling them under the KJ brand.
I was trying to protect my source, just like you sold them under the "Wong" brand.

It was only later when I agreed to try and become a Distributor that I then used the name Spearmaster and advertised as such at the last Blue Wild.

Your accusation of me "talking the Company into selling to me your shaft" really disappoints me.
Dano of Mako would never do that.

Mike.

Mike, thanks for taking the time to provide your perspective on this issue.

Dano