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Old 03-24-2019, 12:18 PM   #61
doyenofcastle
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
In comparison here are some pictures of the Sigalsub Jacko trigger that comes standard with this gun. Not sure if ‘CarbonTek ‘ comes with the same trigger.





I built a gun with that trigger after 15 shoots and it won't be smooth anymore specially if you have tension mono on the release arm
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:13 PM   #62
Diving Gecko
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Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
Are the parts indicated on the picture below rollers?
Comparable to the Ermes sub DR trigger but more moving parts.
I have an Ermes Sub DR trigger ready to install in the gun. I am sure it will be a worthwhile upgrade. Actually it seems a nicer and better made system than the TI C4 trigger.



The front one is a roller, I am not sure the rear one is. My feeling is that it isn't as while both front and rear roller triggers have been made before, afaik Mario's patent is for combining them and making a double roller.


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Old 03-24-2019, 01:42 PM   #63
fredfoes
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
Yes please continue.
Have you used both of these guns?
Hello,
I used the 2, the sigalsub in 95 and 110 and the C4 urukay in 105 and 120.
Despite their similarities, it takes more space for the urukay to express itself, it will be comfortable on the blue, it lacks maneuverability while the sigal is much more lively, it is perfect for the reef.
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:44 PM   #64
kodama
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Hello,

I used the 2, the sigalsub in 95 and 110 and the C4 urukay in 105 and 120.

Despite their similarities, it takes more space for the urukay to express itself, it will be comfortable on the blue, it lacks maneuverability while the sigal is much more lively, it is perfect for the reef.


Good to hear that because I ordered it specifically as a deep reef gun for the Mediterranean Sea. With a better trigger I am sure it will do just fine.
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:47 PM   #65
kodama
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Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Originally Posted by doyenofcastle View Post
I built a gun with that trigger after 15 shoots and it won't be smooth anymore specially if you have tension mono on the release arm
I will take you guys word for it.

I am not even going to bother using the standard trigger. As soon as it arrives I will put the DR in. Problem solved.



I will have to drill two new accurate holes but that is not going to be a challenge.
Originally I asked wether they would be able to fit a DR trigger while producing the gun but they couldn’t. I don’t mind doing it myself though.
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:33 PM   #66
kodama
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Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
The front one is a roller, I am not sure the rear one is. My feeling is that it isn't as while both front and rear roller triggers have been made before, afaik Mario's patent is for combining them and making a double roller.


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Here is another picture showing the internals of the C4 trigger. It remains unclear to me what parts are rolling. The pictures show a poorly maintained trigger which is all clogged up.
A simple rinse is all there should be required for maintenance.
You are probably right about the front one rolling and the back one being fixed.

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Old 03-24-2019, 02:36 PM   #67
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

Those rear upper parts are cylinders in the C4 that don't roll as such and they use the circular cut-out eurogun spear tail notch to advantage. The C4 trigger mechanism is designed to lower the forces going through the mechanism to the trigger by using a high mount pivot pin right behind the tooth, similar to a Prodanovich gun. You can read all about it on the "Trigger Mechanism Design Rules" thread.

The roller that I referred to on the front of the support arm is in behind the bolt head that forms the roller axle.

The C4 trigger mechanism is designed to be stuffed with grease as the entire mechanism sits in a cup in the C4 gun body where sand is unlikely to get into it, however these guns don't want to be dropped on a sandy bottom and rolling in the surge with the gun cocked to shoot. You don't want sand between the cradle that rocks on the support arm and the support arm itself as the mechanism relatches by pushing the tooth back and downwards so that the spear shaft tail notch slides over the top of it before the springs drive the tooth back up into the notch.
http://www.spearboard.com/showthread...m+rules&page=4

Last edited by popgun pete; 03-24-2019 at 02:56 PM. Reason: added link
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Old 03-24-2019, 04:49 PM   #68
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

Here is a Carbon C4 trigger mechanism in pieces.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:29 AM   #69
kodama
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

So far I conclude that both the original Sigalsub or C4 trigger need to be reconsidered.

The sigalsub for being prone to galling and the C4 for the need of grease and not being able to withstand sand.
If that is true that a trigger for an underwater weapon needs grease and therefore will attract sand I can only conclude it is very poor designed.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:32 AM   #70
kodama
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Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

Here are some pictures from the CarbonTek trigger. It is clearly a different one. It only requires one pin and a screw on top to be held in place.

It is marked CT.



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Old 03-25-2019, 12:37 AM   #71
kodama
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

But then again on the CarbonTek website I find this picture which looks exactly the same as the Sigalsub trigger.
This leaves me a bit confused.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:53 AM   #72
popgun pete
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
So far I conclude that both the original Sigalsub or C4 trigger need to be reconsidered.

The sigalsub for being prone to galling and the C4 for the need of grease and not being able to withstand sand.
If that is true that a trigger for an underwater weapon needs grease and therefore will attract sand I can only conclude it is very poor designed.
How can you say that when you seem to know nothing about the C4 Spearguns operating track record? I don't own a C4, but I don't go making unfounded assertions that may erroneously influence other people. Stick with what you know as the C4 trigger mechanism was designed solely for that family of guns and was never intended for anything else and they seem to have sold and been used successfully for many years. Even a Riffe trigger mechanism will choke up with sand if dropped on a wave swept bottom and there is not one dot of grease in them. I have had it happen and I had to hose the sand out and to get the last pieces out of the pushrod tunnel had to partly dismantle it.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:50 AM   #73
kodama
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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How can you say that when you seem to know nothing about the C4 Spearguns operating track record? I don't own a C4, but I don't go making unfounded assertions that may erroneously influence other people. Stick with what you know as the C4 trigger mechanism was designed solely for that family of guns and was never intended for anything else and they seem to have sold and been used successfully for many years. Even a Riffe trigger mechanism will choke up with sand if dropped on a wave swept bottom and there is not one dot of grease in them. I have had it happen and I had to hose the sand out and to get the last pieces out of the pushrod tunnel had to partly dismantle it.
Pete, please don't get all wound up about what I wrote. For all clarity I am not trying to influence anyone not to purchase their spearguns. I myself considered buying one before I settled for something else.

What I am referring to is the need for grease on the trigger to function properly and the direct consequence how it will attract dirt/sand or other clogging agents.
I still think it is a bad design if a trigger for a speargun is dependent on grease to function well! My statement is not unfounded, it is just how I feel about the need for grease in a speargun, or a trigger that requires more maintenance than a daily rinse. I know you come from a different background with all your knowledge and experience with popgun's. Intricate mechanics are more common in that world but it is just not what I look for in a speargun.

However I am not even sure if this C4 trigger is actually suppose to be all greased up. Is this an assumption from your part?
Did you conclude that from this trigger maintenance post?:
http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=131383
http://undergroundwaterman.blogspot....hanism_12.html

Nowhere else besides this write up can I find a reference where it says that this trigger needs grease. I looked at both C4 websites. Maybe not closely enough?

Also, just as you, I have never shot this speargun before hence I ask about it hoping people with actual experience can elaborate.
Until I heard about the need for grease I assumed the trigger design was actually pretty neat.

I probably shouldn't have involved the C4 speargun anyway since the tread is getting derailed.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:13 AM   #74
popgun pete
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
Pete, please don't get all wound up about what I wrote. For all clarity I am not trying to influence anyone not to purchase their spearguns. I myself considered buying one before I settled for something else.

What I am referring to is the need for grease on the trigger to function properly and the direct consequence how it will attract dirt/sand or other clogging agents.
I still think it is a bad design if a trigger for a speargun is dependent on grease to function well! My statement is not unfounded, it is just how I feel about the need for grease in a speargun, or a trigger that requires more maintenance than a daily rinse. I know you come from a different background with all your knowledge and experience with popgun's. Intricate mechanics are more common in that world but it is just not what I look for in a speargun.

However I am not even sure if this C4 trigger is actually suppose to be all greased up. Is this an assumption from your part?
Did you conclude that from this trigger maintenance post?:
http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=131383
http://undergroundwaterman.blogspot....hanism_12.html

Nowhere else besides this write up can I find a reference where it says that this trigger needs grease. I looked at both C4 websites. Maybe not closely enough?

Also, just as you, I have never shot this speargun before hence I ask about it hoping people with actual experience can elaborate.
Until I heard about the need for grease I assumed the trigger design was actually pretty neat.

I probably shouldn't have involved the C4 speargun anyway since the tread is getting derailed.
Yes, I read it in that thread and if look further down the page you can see my reply, in fact I posted there twice. I also noted that Claudio said "One important note, very little if any grease is needed around the springs of the mechanism. Too much grease will interfere with the trigger action and make it feel sluggish."
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:52 PM   #75
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
So far I conclude that both the original Sigalsub or C4 trigger need to be reconsidered.

The sigalsub for being prone to galling and the C4 for the need of grease and not being able to withstand sand.
If that is true that a trigger for an underwater weapon needs grease and therefore will attract sand I can only conclude it is very poor designed.


Hello
I think you conclude a little quickly, the mechanisms C4 and sigal sub are a reference to us and they work for years without any maintenance, my first monoscoca C4 will soon be 20 years old and still doing the job
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