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California Fisheries Regulations and Science (MLPA & MPA) Here is a dedicated forum for the extremely important MLPA & MPA process

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Old 09-05-2015, 12:16 PM   #1
FullFlavorPike
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Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2015/sep/02...-diegos-coast/

On the one hand, sounds pretty gross and like the kind of thing that will lead to catastrophic failures and many unforeseen consequences.

On the other, we've been happily scarfing farmed YT from Japanese fish farms for years.

I don't know what the ups and downs are. Not yet, at least.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-05-2015, 12:38 PM   #2
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

I couldn't find this in the verbiage, will they allow for a slip tip or floppers only?
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Old 09-05-2015, 01:02 PM   #3
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

One of the biggest problems is what are they going to eat ? The bait fish population is allready being harvested in huge amounts , you can't wipe out the bottom of the food chain and except the top ( wild game fish ) to remain at current levels . Mexico is allready over harvesting bait to feed the tuna in pens
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Old 09-06-2015, 10:12 PM   #4
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

The sardine population is in an ebb right now. There are people who are likening it to the crash of the 60's. I seriously doubt that, as our controls are good, and sardine take is drastically reduced for the time being.
This said, Phil's point is spot on. The producers would be able to use squid, sardine, mackerel and anchovy; the wetfish industry could handle the supply side.
On the other hand... this thing will never make it thru a CEQA process. And the level of bribes it would take to get the Coastal Commission to sign off on this would be simply mind blowing. I mean like U2 playing the commissions' Christmas party size bribes.

Plenty of reasons to say no to this one; if nothing else, on principle.
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Old 09-06-2015, 10:20 PM   #5
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

After all........ Hubbs had no issue with an MPA right in front of their operation, so long as they could put a fish farm in it.

To hear them say they could live with an MPA which allowed their commercial growing and harvest of fish in the very waters which we were to be restricted from told me everything I will ever need to know about the Hubbs WSB farming project.

I am sorry that so many spearos and fishermen have bought the story of how the WSB population has been so heavily benefitted by their grow out and release project. A nice way to butter you up before they run you through with the sword.....
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:20 PM   #6
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

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Originally Posted by rojodiablo View Post
After all........ Hubbs had no issue with an MPA right in front of their operation, so long as they could put a fish farm in it.

To hear them say they could live with an MPA which allowed their commercial growing and harvest of fish in the very waters which we were to be restricted from told me everything I will ever need to know about the Hubbs WSB farming project.

I am sorry that so many spearos and fishermen have bought the story of how the WSB population has been so heavily benefitted by their grow out and release project. A nice way to butter you up before they run you through with the sword.....
How does the grow out and release project not help the wsb population? What was it that helped the population then?
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:24 PM   #7
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

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How does the grow out and release project not help the wsb population? What was it that helped the population then?
I think most people agree that controlling commercial fishing with gill nets is a much bigger factor in rebounding WSB and hali populations.
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:31 PM   #8
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

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I think most people agree that controlling commercial fishing with gill nets is a much bigger factor in rebounding WSB and hali populations.
Ok, that makes sense. I read that the wsb project released 1 million fish in the last 10 years so I thought it was a major factor.
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:09 PM   #9
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

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Ok, that makes sense. I read that the wsb project released 1 million fish in the last 10 years so I thought it was a major factor.
A single 40lb WSB releases 20 MILLION eggs in a single evening. She releases several times in a brood, and she can brood 2-3 times a year. Even if 1 out of 1000 eggs make it to adulthood, she alone out produces the Hubbs plantings in only a few years.
And when she is 60lb, it's twice as many eggs. And that's ONE FISH.
Imagine all the schools of 20-60lb WSB roaming the coast from Baja to Santa Cruz...... and all of them breeding...... All our bigger WSB are older than the grow out pen fish; no pen raised WSB is old enough to have reached 50/70 lb. Those fish were all pre-Hubbs.

The banning of inshore gillnets changed EVERYTHING. That, and the rebound of sardine stocks. A lot of magical rejuvenation occurred, and the stopping of the nets was a huge bonus to that. The returns on the tagged Hubbs fish is a tiny number. Less than .5% of take has a tag of any kind, Hubbs, Scripps, Pflueger Institute combined.

The entire purpose of the hatchery efforts in the first place was to learn to breed WSB for farming. That they released fish as a public relations offshoot is yes, a benefit to us to a point, but at the same time, they have had several die-offs due to diseases, and YES, some of those fish who were in that water were released, to take that to the general population of wild WSB.

This is my #1 concern. Penned fish get a disease, the water flowing thru is right in a migration pattern for both WSB &YT, and any communicable ailment will be introduced to wild fish. Furthermore, from the feedings that would be going on, it is to be expected that the wild fish would eventually visit and join their penned counterparts, drawn by the natural scent of other YT or WSB. At this point, they are extra susceptible for exposure to diseases.

If they tell you the food and scent would not attract other YT and WSB..... look no further than the BFT pens, and how many fish congregate rigt under the pens in almost pet-like fashion. And those are purely pelagic fish, who have no dependence upon solid structures like WSB and YT.
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:27 AM   #10
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

So, is there likely to be fallout for recreational fishermen if this proposed YT farm in Point Loma gets pushed through somehow?

Rather than gambling that it'll fail, it seems to me like it's worth considering what could happen if it doesn't.
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Old 09-12-2015, 06:10 PM   #11
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

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So, is there likely to be fallout for recreational fishermen if this proposed YT farm in Point Loma gets pushed through somehow?

Rather than gambling that it'll fail, it seems to me like it's worth considering what could happen if it doesn't.
It will really be a question of what they will do to ensure the YT they grow are triploided, and sterile. If the fish get a disease, they will be infecting THAT is a big negative.
They will be asking for a big buffer area where we can not fish around the pens, and fishermen are definitely going to want to fish the down-current side of the pens for the automatic chumline created when the feedings occur.
Boat traffic will be diverted, depending on the size of area and proximity to fishing areas.

Disease and loss of fishing areas will b the big issues.
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:21 AM   #12
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

This is big enough to ruin the viz in La Jolla. Adios SCUBA diving industry. Aside from obviously affecting our sport.
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:27 PM   #13
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

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This is big enough to ruin the viz in La Jolla. Adios SCUBA diving industry. Aside from obviously affecting our sport.
Are you serious? Even if so, commerical dive boats are not the business they once were, at least to my understanding, and therefore unlikely to have their opinions heeded by policymakers.
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:45 PM   #14
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

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Are you serious? Even if so, commerical dive boats are not the business they once were, at least to my understanding, and therefore unlikely to have their opinions heeded by policymakers.
Um serious about what you idiot? You are against the pens so wtf are you doing criticizing my attempt to get scuba divers concerned? Did i say anything about commercial dive boats like they were once some kind of political lobbying force? I'm talking about the thousands of wealthy influential retired dudes that dive and could pour Mr politician a glass of single malt and say "hey you aren't gonna let this fish farm happen are you?"

"at least to my understanding" - who writes like that? That line is for talking on the spot. You don't type that.
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Old 09-15-2015, 05:40 AM   #15
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Re: Do we think this fish farm is a bad idea?

I also have to wonder how commercial fishermen would feel about a supply of farmed YT undercutting them, and possibly forcing the price of wild YT through the roof to make the fishery profitable.
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