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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 07-23-2018, 01:28 PM   #91
SEA_ARCHER
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

I definitely see the potential in this setup. while my 130 has a deangelo 2 handle and the ermes pathos roller that doesnt roll, it is still the most accurate speargun I have shot. While I can't drop shot after shot through the same hole like on your video, I put some good groups together out past 6 meters and have killed some nice fish with it already. The perfectionist in me wants this gun to reach its full potential though. So I get to wait for a better ermes trigger or I get to start a deangelo 1 handle project. Fun gun to shoot though.
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Old 07-30-2018, 01:00 AM   #92
spearq8
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by SEA_ARCHER View Post
I definitely see the potential in this setup. while my 130 has a deangelo 2 handle and the ermes pathos roller that doesnt roll, it is still the most accurate speargun I have shot. While I can't drop shot after shot through the same hole like on your video, I put some good groups together out past 6 meters and have killed some nice fish with it already. The perfectionist in me wants this gun to reach its full potential though. So I get to wait for a better ermes trigger or I get to start a deangelo 1 handle project. Fun gun to shoot though.

For sure a good trigger will improve accuracy by quite a bit. A DR trigger is very good at keeping shaft flight stable as the back roller allows the shaft to just glide out of the mech, without having to jump over the speed bumb that is usually present in a normal shaft sear. The front roller ensures that the break off point stays consistent and allows you to time your shots to perfection. This combination has a huge impact on accuracy and I am sure if you had the same setup I am shooting in the video you would get similar results to what I am getting.

Good news is that a full DR version of the D1 is in the works and should be out soon. As for the D2 ... little more complicated as you have only 10mm to work with for the box (compared to 14mm for the D1). But I think this will happen as well as I have a good idea to gain 3mm for things to work well. Not sure if Mario will be interested in it but in simulation on my computer it works as good as a full DR trigger. These things always need to be tested to make sure they work though, but I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. I might bite the bullet and cut some sears and be the guinea pig as I have a bunch of D2 handles that would love to have DR triggers on.

In the meantime, the D1 mod I did for a full DR trigger is really not difficult with a D1 handle. You just need the sanding bit for a dremel (which is about 14mm) and you just remove a little material. You then shave off a little for the line release and file off two channels to let the back of the trigger fit. Then with some epoxy putty you just put some putty under the arms. You need to level and center everything, but this is easy to do by just placing a full DR mech box (without internals) with a shaft in the mech box. The shaft flat top will make sure you have the correct height ... and the rest is just centering. You can tape up your mech with electric tape and then add some epoxy with graphite filler and some fibers and put it on the walls of the mech and then put the taped up and centered and levelled mech and you have a perfect new mech box slot. Now you just need to cut off the tip of the bottom of your trigger sear as it will be too long for the D1 handle guard. Sure it is some work but really nothing too difficult. Results are well worth the effort. With a full DR trigger I think you get the added advantage of being able to add washers to move the trigger up or down ... with the new DR trigger for the D1 you will not have that option. It is not a game changer but is nice to be able to move a trigger a few fractions of an mm up or down for a perfect fit as not all shafts use the same tolerances.

Last edited by spearq8; 07-30-2018 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 08-01-2018, 08:48 PM   #93
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
........I have since put the gun through quite a lot of shots ... also put it with a 130 barrel and 8mm shaft at extremely high stretch......http://youtu.be/K-sN4pQkWSU
Majd - are you seeing any barrel bend/flex as you power the pipe up that much? I assume thats stock Pathos 28mm ID carbon pipe you're using?

Given your results I assume if there is any barrel distortion its not affecting the accuracy even on long shots.

Am using alum pipe [Rob Allen, slightly thicker wall 28mm ID than Pathos] on my DR mech pipegun project, and just a bit concerned that barrel stiffness may hamper things as I load things up with that mech? seem to recall that was an issue in the old days messing around with twin 20mm bands on aly railguns, hence Rabi and others bringing out crazy heavy pipes, which of course sank like a stone

muzzle band slot is tight horizontal so both bands pulling from as close to shaft axis as possible......
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Old 08-02-2018, 12:11 PM   #94
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by kavachi View Post
Majd - are you seeing any barrel bend/flex as you power the pipe up that much? I assume thats stock Pathos 28mm ID carbon pipe you're using?

Given your results I assume if there is any barrel distortion its not affecting the accuracy even on long shots.

Am using alum pipe [Rob Allen, slightly thicker wall 28mm ID than Pathos] on my DR mech pipegun project, and just a bit concerned that barrel stiffness may hamper things as I load things up with that mech? seem to recall that was an issue in the old days messing around with twin 20mm bands on aly railguns, hence Rabi and others bringing out crazy heavy pipes, which of course sank like a stone

muzzle band slot is tight horizontal so both bands pulling from as close to shaft axis as possible......
Actually I have never noticed that but I think with the aluminium pipe the longest length I have shot it with is 120 ... maybe at 130 things are different. If you are really worried about flex you can easily fix that by just putting a Carbon Fiber sleeve over the aluminium pipe. I have done that on several guns (including the Pathos Sniper) and it seems that the O rings still work perfect if you turn the CF inside the aluminium pipe at the end. You just need a plug that really pushes the CF in the inside of the aluminium pipe to have it neatly folded inside. CF is an amazing material and with sleeves it is really very easy to reinforce your speargun with. You can buy the sleeves from sollercomposites. You probably don't need a vacuum pump either to reinforce a pipe, you might be able to get away with just using the correct shrink wrap sleeves that they also sell. I think the CF would also help shaft velocity with the Pathos aluminium pipe as the track on those pipes feels like rough sand paper and the CF would make the track much slicker. I do have a 140cm aluminium pipe that I had planned to try and build a gun around. I had planned to put a slip on ballast (similar to what the Pathos uses on the roller kit mod but much bigger) and then slip a CF sleeve over the entire new shape. Add a double roller trigger to a modded Pathos D1 handle and I think you would have a very powerful and capable blue water gun for dirt cheap. With added buoyancy you could easily fit an 8mm shaft ... and with a 140 pipe you are talking about over 152cm of band stretch!
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