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Old 01-03-2010, 05:19 PM   #16
2fishin2
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Re: Tongatapu

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Miami Spear,

How did that decision to go to the Marshalls turn out? Must be awesome!

Herby.... if you come over to Indonesia, the local fisherman would encourage you to shoot the Napoleons as well. It's tough for them to get them with the dynamite or cyanide since their usually a bit deep or in the current. But, you will definitely piss off the local spearfishermen myself included and we might encourage you to dive elsewhere.. My problem with killing Napoleons is that they are residential and don't seem to re-populate.. I wonder how old that fish was?.. we used to have quite a few of them. Then one by one, visiting divers checked them off their list. Now, I can't bring my 1Oyr old son out and let him feed them bannanas. I guess that's not a concern for visitors. Atleast you landed that one........ did you plug any others and have them break off or head for the reef in 15Oft of water with a shaft through them? Come clean.. I'm all for shooting what you are going to eat. Those other fish are great. Dogtooth Tuna and Jobfish are great eating, semi pelagic species that run in schools. When was the last time you saw a school of giant Napoleons? I just don't see the reason for shooting a 2OOlb Napoleon when you are visiting an island, on a trip, and have a boat full of snapper and tuna. It's just a trophy, a photo.. and ofcourse if you post up a photo of yourself holding a big Napoleon, you already know you are going to catch some flak. Here's a question.. Now that you have killed a big beautiful Napoleon, and hopefully filleted it yourself and ate it rather than just passing it off to some local fishermen.. would you do it again?
second this motion....
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:13 PM   #17
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Re: Tongatapu

yeah you should go to the zoo and shoot Panda's. I hear the Panda's are prized trophies too! Such a shame to shoot those Nap's. I had plenty of chances, and ALWAYS resisted myself, too beautiful too shoot. That's like shooting turtles in the south picific, you can shoot those things, but just because you can, should you? Napolean Wrasse are on the threathen species list by the way.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:38 PM   #18
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Re: Tongatapu

Well put Behslayer
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:56 PM   #19
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Re: Tongatapu

I have seen a lot of Naps in my day. Schools of them on a reef. Slowly they dissapeared... Why dont we talk about dogtooth on the same level as Napoleans? Too many fish are not landed as compared to those that are when it comes to these big rare fish. Much like the story of south point on the big island of Hawaii. Some tourist went up there and just slayed all the big Ono (100lb +). Now that place is a ghost town. The world is the same, there is just less in it.
Are dogtooth not on the same level as Naps? Arent they just as rare?
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:25 AM   #20
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Re: Tongatapu

If you are going to consume the entire fish you may have a case, but why shoot a fish on the endangered list just for a picture to show your friends. I guess the mankind will never learn until its too late.
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:26 AM   #21
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Re: Tongatapu

The humphead wrasse is long lived, but has a very slow breeding rate. Its numbers have declined due to a number of threats.
Threats include: 1) intensive and species-specific removal in the live reef food fish trade; 2) spearfishing at night with SCUBA gear; 3) destructive fishing techniques, including sodium cyanide and dynamite; 4) habitat loss and degradation; 5) juveniles being taken from the wild and raised or “cultured” in floating net cages until saleable size; 6) a developing export market for juvenile humphead wrasse for the marine aquarium trade; 7) lack of coordinated, consistent national and regional management; and 8) illegal, unregulated, or unreported (IUU) fisheries.
In December 2003, Australia prohibited all take and possession of humphead wrasse, other than for limited educational purposes and public display. In Guangdong province, southern mainland China, permits are required for the sale of this species; Indonesia allows fishing only for research, mariculture, and licensed artisanal fishing; the Maldives instituted an export ban in 1995; Papua New Guinea prohibits export of fish over 2 feet (65 cm) Total Length; and Niue has banned all fishing for this species.
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:30 AM   #22
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Re: Tongatapu

My respect nice catch your dive seem awesome i would have shot that wrasse if i had the chance , but now reading more about the fish , if i ever travel to the pacific i wouldn't shoot it , maybe next time you can spare the fish and hopefully someone here can learn more about the humphead wrasse before shooting one
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:34 AM   #23
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Re: Tongatapu

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Originally Posted by BreathlessSight View Post
I have seen a lot of Naps in my day. Schools of them on a reef. Slowly they dissapeared... Why dont we talk about dogtooth on the same level as Napoleans? Too many fish are not landed as compared to those that are when it comes to these big rare fish. Much like the story of south point on the big island of Hawaii. Some tourist went up there and just slayed all the big Ono (100lb +). Now that place is a ghost town. The world is the same, there is just less in it.
Are dogtooth not on the same level as Naps? Arent they just as rare?
Breathless, I agree with you there too. The Doggies in many places are being severely impacted as well. Too many people taking more than they need, or looking for trophys, sportfishing... Too many people taking potshots, using the wrong equipment, and losing fish they shoot. The difference I see is that Doggies tend to be schooling fish, semi pelagic, and I would imagine, are much quicker to mature than Napoleons. But sure. I'm all in favor of having this discussion which includes other fish like Dogtooth.

[At this point I guess I should explain my Avatar.. as it surely doesn't suit the discussion. I took those four fish on my birthday several years ago. I was shorediving with one local friend who I had persuaded to come on a huge swim ie. miles against current, out into the blue.. We were having a BIG local style party. Fish and rice.
He got freaked out, got blisters, and went in, taking our buoy with him. Then I got shoaled.... I took two and went for one more smaller one knowing how many people would be at the party, knowing that the heads, tails, and bones would be made into soup. The third shot nailed two fish, which was a big hassle considering I had no buoy and was holding onto everything with a little piece of rope.. Normally, if we go for a dive, we take one fish per person. And we only fish when the fridge is empty. This discussion is Not about why killing fish is wrong. We are Spearfishermen. We take what we will eat and we enjoy the hunt. This discussion is about the targeting of certain species and whether there are some species out there that should/could be considered for a No Shoot list.
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Old 01-04-2010, 02:34 PM   #24
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Re: Tongatapu

Behslayer your spearfishing ethics are beyond reproach IMHO, I make an active effort to 'preach' a similar gospel amongst those that spear and line fish in my locality.
Sincere respect to you sir!
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Old 01-04-2010, 03:12 PM   #25
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Re: Tongatapu

Beautiful fish!

Can you post some more pictures?

Every one of those fish are outstanding specimens!
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Old 01-04-2010, 06:32 PM   #26
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Re: Tongatapu

Ahhh, a conundrum, to be sure. I have to once again agree with Behslayer on the Napolean issue... I have traveled to some outlying atolls and the indigenous people there would not normally have access to these types of giant fish. And we cannot comfort ourselves by saying the fish was not wasted, because truthfully, if we didn't have the "locals" to pawn off a fish like that, would we really have taken a 150 pounds of Napolean meat home with us? Maybe, but probably not. I have a hard enough time bringing back 50 pounds of fish from trips. But I applaud the effort. Shooting a Napolean that big is definitely taking a very big risk of losing your gear (at least)! Otherwise, I am stoked for you guys for having an experience that doesn't come along many times in this life!
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:57 PM   #27
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Re: Tongatapu

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Originally Posted by Powerhead View Post
Beautiful fish!

Can you post some more pictures?

Every one of those fish are outstanding specimens!
AHH, you must be one of those guys that complain about the grouper and snapper closure, and love it when hordes of divers come from out of state to deplete all of your lobster during the season down in the keys. I too will be coming there and shooting all of your trophy fish, because sir there is enough fish out there. It will never get depleted, right?

Shooting Napolean's is like shooting a cow in pasture, I have a bunch of footage of a Napolean within a spearguns reach of me. But I like to think that he could of lived a long life. I hear that Manatee's are fun to shoot, who's down?
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:14 AM   #28
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Re: Tongatapu

"Please don't start up the 'its a majestic fish so lets protect it' crap-it is an emotional justification, not a logical one.
In Tongatapu these fish are not endangered like they are in other parts of the world, in fact I saw more of them than I saw jobfish, or dogtooth."

Freediving Fool, unfortunately your question about shooting manatees is not just a joke.. a few years ago a 7OOlb Dugong, our version of the Manatee, washed in on the beach. Dead from an infection spreading out from the 7mm shaft lodged in it's chest.. I know who did it. A local Indonesian who had been given a Speargun by a visiting surfer. Ofcourse he planned on bringing it in to the beach like a hero and I guess eating it.. ofcourse, the Dugong took off with his shaft.

In Indonesia, these species are not protected by law. There are quite a few of them, and I imagine in some places, the "local" fishermen might encourage a visiting tourist spearfisherman to shoot one.. Herby, this might be another one to add to your list. I think they might be good eating? If not, they could be burleyed? Sorry to be brash. I'm just trying to illustrate a point. It's an emotional response not a logical one. The real question here is where do we draw the line?
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:02 AM   #29
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Re: Tongatapu

I know all about the dugong, a certain placed that I just lived in has them or did have them. There is a big issue about the U.S. building an airfield out to this bay, but the locals cried foul because it is Dugong habitat. The last Dugong actual sighting has been over 20+years ago. Where did they go, maybe someone speared them all. Who knows?
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:47 PM   #30
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Re: Tongatapu

Are you guys all high on crack?
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