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Technical Spearfishing Technical Scuba diving is generally defined as going deeper than 130 feet. You must have the proper training for this extreme aspect of spearfishing.

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Old 08-15-2008, 12:45 PM   #16
jadairiii
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Re: How deep on air?

Below is a partial list of Deep Air deaths, the list was stopped in or around 1998 when techdiver went off the web. It will give you a good start when deciding "how deep on air". Some were spearfisherman.

John

Heywood Day, 140', 1962
Ron Hughes, 150', 1963
Paul Giancontere, 200', 1965
Brend Joost, 160', 1968
Stephen Alexander, 210', 1969
Pat McIntree, 150', 1969
Brett Naisbet, 150', 1969
Wayne Dillon, 210', 1969
Francis Wilson, 160', 1969
Paul Bartlett, 140', 1970
Robert Causey, 180', 1970
Bud Sims, 300', 1970
Fred Schmidt, 150', 1970
John Cruselle, 180', 1971
Frank Martz, 300', 1971
Robert Vaughn, 200', 1971
Doug Deurloo, 150', 1971
Ray Elman, 260', 1972
Alex Nesbitt, 200', 1972
Thomas Cranmer, 200', 1972
Paul Dietrich, 240', 1972
Dan Cole, 220', 1972
Rich Broman, 140', 1972
Stephen Millott, 250', 1973
Christine Millott, 250', 1973
John Bockerman, 250', 1973
Gordon Roberts, 250', 1973
William Smith, 200', 1973
Melvan Tillman, 150', 1973
James Waddington, 140', 1973
Robert Wyatt, 210', 1973
Deane Valentine, 190', 1973
George Van de Nord, 190', 1973
Paul Reinholm, 170', 1974
Unidentified, 200', 1974
Dana Turner, 290', 1974
Charles Barone, 180', 1975
Daniel Howard, 180', 1975
Steve Herman, 180', 1975
Mike Goddard, 170', 1976
Arthur Williamson, 140', 1976
Sven Sorenson, 140', 1976
William Wood, 180', 1978
Carl Miles, 180', 1978
Terry Collins, 260', 1981
James Bentz, 260', 1981
Bill McFadden, 200', 1988
William Cronin, 140', 1988
Kenny Potts, 200', 1990
Lloyd Morrison, 250', 1990
Billy Liiard, 180', 1991
Ormsby, John 230' 1985
Feldman, Steve 235' 1991
Soellner, Ed 145' 1992
Rouse, Jr, Chris 235' 1992
Rouse, Sr Chris 235' 1992
Santulli, Robert 220 1992
Sheck Exley 400 aed
Nick Commoglio 450
Rob Palmer ?
Rob Parker 250
Ed Suarez 280
Carl Sutton 280
Legare Hole 240
Andy Bader 220
Aron Arvidson 311*******correction
Dennis Sirvet 110 meters
DOUGLAS MISSAVAGE 191 ******correction
DAVID WEAVER ATEMPT AT NEW ZEALAND AIR DEPTH RECORD 85 meters
1984 - 2 TWO DIVERS FAILED TO SURFACE AFTER A 68
METER DIVE IN - ICCANINNIE PONDS SOUTH
AUSTRALIA .. ON AIR..
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Old 08-15-2008, 02:27 PM   #17
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Re: How deep on air?

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Originally Posted by FredT View Post
LOTS of variables on deep air.
Step one is to find out what YOUR CNS trigger symptom is and be able to identify it early enough to turn the dive safely. .

I feel tingly in my tongue. Right on the tip. I usually don't feel it until 2nd or 3rd dive past 200. Thats when I end it for the day, or at least take it shallower.
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Old 08-15-2008, 03:39 PM   #18
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Re: How deep on air?

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Originally Posted by Mike Edmonston View Post
Actually, I'm in the springs with doubles, 1 stage and 1 o2 bottle. We were setting up to do a 2 hour cave dive.

You're a dumbass, go figure!
Very impressive....however I sometimes do 2 hour spearfishing dives in doubles with stages.Occasionally even on air.My contribution is therefore more germane.

The last time I looked this was a spearfishing forum.And other than blind catfish and crawfish there are not many targets in a cave.Give us a trip report on them if you can manage to shoot something in there.
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:17 PM   #19
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Re: How deep on air?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadairiii View Post
Below is a partial list of Deep Air deaths, the list was stopped in or around 1998 when techdiver went off the web. It will give you a good start when deciding "how deep on air". Some were spearfisherman.

John

Heywood Day, 140', 1962
Ron Hughes, 150', 1963
Paul Giancontere, 200', 1965
Brend Joost, 160', 1968
Stephen Alexander, 210', 1969
Pat McIntree, 150', 1969
Brett Naisbet, 150', 1969
Wayne Dillon, 210', 1969
Francis Wilson, 160', 1969
Paul Bartlett, 140', 1970
Robert Causey, 180', 1970
Bud Sims, 300', 1970
Fred Schmidt, 150', 1970
John Cruselle, 180', 1971
Frank Martz, 300', 1971
Robert Vaughn, 200', 1971
Doug Deurloo, 150', 1971
Ray Elman, 260', 1972
Alex Nesbitt, 200', 1972
Thomas Cranmer, 200', 1972
Paul Dietrich, 240', 1972
Dan Cole, 220', 1972
Rich Broman, 140', 1972
Stephen Millott, 250', 1973
Christine Millott, 250', 1973
John Bockerman, 250', 1973
Gordon Roberts, 250', 1973
William Smith, 200', 1973
Melvan Tillman, 150', 1973
James Waddington, 140', 1973
Robert Wyatt, 210', 1973
Deane Valentine, 190', 1973
George Van de Nord, 190', 1973
Paul Reinholm, 170', 1974
Unidentified, 200', 1974
Dana Turner, 290', 1974
Charles Barone, 180', 1975
Daniel Howard, 180', 1975
Steve Herman, 180', 1975
Mike Goddard, 170', 1976
Arthur Williamson, 140', 1976
Sven Sorenson, 140', 1976
William Wood, 180', 1978
Carl Miles, 180', 1978
Terry Collins, 260', 1981
James Bentz, 260', 1981
Bill McFadden, 200', 1988
William Cronin, 140', 1988
Kenny Potts, 200', 1990
Lloyd Morrison, 250', 1990
Billy Liiard, 180', 1991
Ormsby, John 230' 1985
Feldman, Steve 235' 1991
Soellner, Ed 145' 1992
Rouse, Jr, Chris 235' 1992
Rouse, Sr Chris 235' 1992
Santulli, Robert 220 1992
Sheck Exley 400 aed
Nick Commoglio 450
Rob Palmer ?
Rob Parker 250
Ed Suarez 280
Carl Sutton 280
Legare Hole 240
Andy Bader 220
Aron Arvidson 311*******correction
Dennis Sirvet 110 meters
DOUGLAS MISSAVAGE 191 ******correction
DAVID WEAVER ATEMPT AT NEW ZEALAND AIR DEPTH RECORD 85 meters
1984 - 2 TWO DIVERS FAILED TO SURFACE AFTER A 68
METER DIVE IN - ICCANINNIE PONDS SOUTH
AUSTRALIA .. ON AIR..
I don't see the name of Craig Swavely who was diving solo around 200' plus or minus with straight air, diving off West Palm Beach on the vessel Playin Hooky, filming growth on a barge. Can't remember the year but it seems around 1975 thereabouts.
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Old 08-15-2008, 05:13 PM   #20
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Re: How deep on air?

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Originally Posted by Bulit7 View Post
OK, for you deep divers on here. My setup is almost complete.

LP120 cranked to 3600psi
30cf pony

What is the deepest you guys go around here with this kind of setup.

I will be getting a couple of 30s for 80% scrubbing.

I'm thinking 200-220 feet os so.

What is the best way to build up to those depths since most dives are solo.
The fact that you have to ask, proves you are unprepared and lack the proper training do these types of dives.

I would hate to hear about you getting hurt or killed.

Do yourself and your family a favor and get the proper training and experience to do these types of dives.
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Old 08-15-2008, 06:04 PM   #21
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Re: How deep on air?

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Originally Posted by 100days-a-year View Post
Very impressive....however I sometimes do 2 hour spearfishing dives in doubles with stages.Occasionally even on air.My contribution is therefore more germane.
That's awesome. You sound like a person that alot of people could learn from on this forum. I am a long time tech diver and dive instructor, but a very new spearfisherman. I would love to learn more about handling the fish with stages, stringing them up etc... You obviously would not have a problem loading your gun while wearing your gear, this is all good information that should be shared. Therefore I think that your contribution to this thread would be immensely beneficial to those of us just starting out in the sport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100days-a-year View Post
The last time I looked this was a spearfishing forum.
I believe I was posting in the technical spearfishing section. If I was mistaken, my apologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100days-a-year View Post
And other than blind catfish and crawfish there are not many targets in a cave.
Have you seen the snorklers and tubers in the springs? We are a target rich environment

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100days-a-year View Post
Give us a trip report on them if you can manage to shoot something in there.
Sorry bud, no can do. Can't bring a speargun in fresh water. But I will be more than happy to give you a trip report next time I go to the dry tortugas and "try" to shoot a big fish at 280', that should be fun.

Safe diving.
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Old 08-15-2008, 07:12 PM   #22
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Re: How deep on air?

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Originally Posted by Mike Edmonston View Post
Ok,

What is your lost gass bailout strategy? What is the END that you plan on maintaining at your max depth? What is your planned and contingency bottom times and depths? How do you plan on monitoring your CNS and your OTU's for this dive? Why are you using 80% instead of 100% o2? Do you know the difference in microbubble formation and nitrogen intake vs pure Oxygen to choose 80% as opposed to 100% o2?

Any macho wannabe idiot can grab a tank and breathe from it, it's knowing what to do when the crap hits the fan that separates calm well trained divers from Macho wannabees who are trying to compensate for their shortcomings.

Based on your self description of diving and unwillingness to take a class because you're too cheap, I would safely say that the max depth you should go to is about 12 to 15 feet!

Have a Macho day... Vroom Vroom....
Boy! Someone has a chip on their shoulder! Maybe I'm wrong but you sound like a short diked a$$hole. Have a nice day b$tch.
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Old 08-15-2008, 07:26 PM   #23
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Re: How deep on air?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank49 View Post
You could have spent the same energy giving constructive advice. Or do you just not like motorcycles?
Thanks for the support. That is what I like about this board: Beyond a few assholes, most people on here are cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank49 View Post
Well, I would guess he's going to try it regardless of what anyone tells him. You're right about the danger, so the more good advice, the better I figure.
If that's him on that bike, he can ride the shit out of one. I would guess he could take the stress of problems underwater.
LOL! I can ride the shit out of it for sure! LOL As far as my diving goes, I have gone to 140 many times and 165 a couple. Never felt anything at any of those depths. I'm looking into learning more about deep deco.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredT View Post
LOTS of variables on deep air.
Step one is to find out what YOUR CNS trigger symptom is and be able to identify it early enough to turn the dive safely. YOUR symptom will be different than mine, and mine is different from anybody else I've ever gone deep with. One girl I dove with in The Tongue tasted cinnamon rolls as her warning sign, so be aware that it can be ANYTHING. The dive turns at the FIRST hint of the symptom! this symptom will be consistent for YOU, but the depth it strikes will vary with a host of variables from how hydrated you are that day to how much sleep you got LAST weekend!

Most will not do enough deep bounces in a lifetime to determine what their symptom is, as it may take a hundred or more dives in benign conditions to sort it out. Hunting in any form is NOT benign conditions! The He mix divers avoid the problem by changing the diluent gas.

Oxtox is another problem not related to the CNS issues, with it's own set of variables and rules.

As posted before on other threads deep air for me is based on simple math. If when counting my breaths deeper than 150' I run out of fingers on one hand, or my symptom shows up, my dive is over. Hunting deep on air in any mode but a true bounce IMNSHO is begging to become a statistic, usually without a body to bury.
Thanks Fred. Your posts are allways knowledgable and helpfull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgbill View Post
The fact that you have to ask, proves you are unprepared and lack the proper training do these types of dives.

I would hate to hear about you getting hurt or killed.

Do yourself and your family a favor and get the proper training and experience to do these types of dives.
Thanks bgbill. I appreciate that. I was looking into it today. It apparently will require more gear! What do you know! LOL. H-valves, extra regs, etc.

I'm workin on it and put this thread up for just some friendly advice. Seems that most that responded gave me just that, and I thank you all for it.

Like I said, I'm allready doing some mildly deep stuff. Just looking to stay a little longer and clean up with a richer mix for shorter deco.

Guy I spoke to today told me the course runs $1200 but he would train me for $600. Does that sound like a decent number? It is a TDI course that involves 6 trips and 12 dives.

Thanks again.
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:05 PM   #24
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Re: How deep on air?

Less gear and just swim faster.

240' with a hangover!!!

Don't try what we do, we're professionals.
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:22 PM   #25
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Re: How deep on air?

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Less gear and just swim faster.

240' with a hangover!!!

Don't try what we do, we're professionals.
Oh! OK...

If I drink a lot and pop a few pills can I be a "professiona"l too?
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:55 PM   #26
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Re: How deep on air?

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Originally Posted by Bulit7 View Post
Oh! OK...

If I drink a lot and pop a few pills can I be a "professiona"l too?
I may be an A$$hole, but you're a cheap idiot with a death wish! Besides, looking at your spectacular lifestyle, I would expect you to be driving around in a 76 Camaro with a gold chain license plate and a white tank top yelling "Adrian!!!" You are obviously compensating for something, maybe you tought yourself to be really cool too! Don't worry Rocky, they're laughing with you... Really!

You should spend more time taking the proper classes and answering the questions that I posted, than cut/copy/pasting everyone's response that agreed with you so that you could stroke your huge viagra enhanced ego! Then Maybe you'll understand how ridiculous your question is!

Like I said earlier, if you knew the math, you wouldn't ask this question. But you're too smart for your own good! Don't read the books, just wait for the movie!

Enjoy your air dives, I'll look you up in the next "special olympics"!

DEE.. DEE.. DEE..

Safe Diving
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Last edited by Mike Edmonston; 08-15-2008 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:12 PM   #27
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Re: How deep on air?

Great promo for your business douchebag.

Hey everyone! Want to get trained by some know it all asshole? Here ya go!

Mike Edmonston
Oxycheq Experimental Dive Team Test Pilot
NAUI Instructor#46984
Technical Scuba Training Center, FL.
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Just make sure that your dick is smaller then his or you will have some difficulties. LOL
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:25 PM   #28
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Re: How deep on air?

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Great promo for your business douchebag.

Hey everyone! Want to get trained by some know it all asshole? Here ya go!

Mike Edmonston
Oxycheq Experimental Dive Team Test Pilot
NAUI Instructor#46984
Technical Scuba Training Center, FL.
www.floridatechdive.com
***Ask me about Great Deals on Dive Gear and Classes for Spearboard Forum members ***


Just make sure that your dick is smaller then his or you will have some difficulties. LOL
ROFL!!!

That's awesome, thanks for the plug dude. I'll crosspost your endorsement on a few other boards. Unfortunately, I'm booked till October 18th, but I will be more than happy to take on new students after that. I'll even give any student a 10% discount on the class if they mention you


By the way Rocky, I'm still waiting for you to answer those questions in post #7.

Also, you might want to seek consultation on your dick fetish. You seem a little... um...Obsessed with it. That can't be good for you dude, you should really get it checked out.


Have a Macho day
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:36 PM   #29
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Re: How deep on air?

Good luck to ya shrivel dick! LOL
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:59 PM   #30
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Re: How deep on air?

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Originally Posted by Bulit7 View Post
Oh! OK...

If I drink a lot and pop a few pills can I be a "professiona"l too?
I don't do pills "Gay Boy" but I will kick your ass in diving everyday of the week.

I will shoot bigger fish than you,

I will dive deeper than you,

I will make more dives a day than you,

Afterwards, I will drink more beer than you, beat the **** out of you in wrestling and **** more pussy than you!!!

Ever figured how to get a beer holder on that piece of shit you call a motorcycle?










You'll never be of Hell Diver caliber, too self centered.
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