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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 06-14-2018, 11:40 AM   #1
BenGreen
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WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

I don't mind doing some tinkering, but why in the hell do we need someone like majdq (thanks btw learned tons from your videos) to show us how to set up a gun correctly. I mean we spend $1k on a new gun that we then need to change the bands (usually too think and long), new spear, modified handle etc etc. I have never bought a gun that was delivered with the ultimate and most efficient set up, ever.

Why don't the gun manufactures do the necessary testing to deliver a product that performs at it's peak? Not all of us have access to pool testing or the know-how to modify grips etc, or the patience to mess with it all. Some of us just want to buy a good gun and shot fish, period. If there are any gun manufactures out there that deliver an optimized product with all the perfect band ratios, spear thickness etc that requires zero fiddling with, please let me know.

Sorry for the venting, just really irks me.


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Old 06-14-2018, 01:53 PM   #2
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

Is this where we post all the photos and videos of 'first shot ever with the new gun'?

We try to get it right. But it is worth mentioning that different divers have very different ideas on what 'Right' is.. and does not always follow what is 'Right' in the pool. For example. I had a new prototype gun I made which was a bit slimmer than my normal and I was concerned about what settings would work best on that gun. I tried it in the pool and noted my own preference. Then I sent it out to two other very experienced divers. One did a full week of testing different configurations in the pool and videoing. The other has used the gun in the field for over one year. If you ask these two what is the 'Right' set up. One will say 3 small ID Bands at 350% with a 5/16" Shaft. The other will say 4 small ID bands at 350% with an 11/32".. The two divers have Very Different Recoil Tolerances.. One is shooting in a pool. One is shooting in Real life where he is swimming at a target and gives a little push at the target as he fires. The guy in the pool was able to hit a 2" grouping consistently at 22'+ from the tip. The guy in the field has taken over 50 Wahoo with the gun now.

Ofcourse some manufacturers get it wrong.. but it is worth mentioning that even those who get it right, shooters can continue to fine tune to their specific style and tolerance.
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:12 PM   #3
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Is this where we post all the photos and videos of 'first shot ever with the new gun'?

We try to get it right. But it is worth mentioning that different divers have very different ideas on what 'Right' is.. and does not always follow what is 'Right' in the pool. For example. I had a new prototype gun I made which was a bit slimmer than my normal and I was concerned about what settings would work best on that gun. I tried it in the pool and noted my own preference. Then I sent it out to two other very experienced divers. One did a full week of testing different configurations in the pool and videoing. The other has used the gun in the field for over one year. If you ask these two what is the 'Right' set up. One will say 3 small ID Bands at 350% with a 5/16" Shaft. The other will say 4 small ID bands at 350% with an 11/32".. The two divers have Very Different Recoil Tolerances.. One is shooting in a pool. One is shooting in Real life where he is swimming at a target and gives a little push at the target as he fires. The guy in the pool was able to hit a 2" grouping consistently at 22'+ from the tip. The guy in the field has taken over 50 Wahoo with the gun now.

Ofcourse some manufacturers get it wrong.. but it is worth mentioning that even those who get it right, shooters can continue to fine tune to their specific style and tolerance.
Fair point and I agree to a certain extent. The problem I have is when it's basically just expected and almost required to modify something to get the set up right, which has been my experience with most guns. Maybe I am just too picky and have the bar set too high; just think more can be done from the gun builders to ship guns that are awesome out of the box. Would be really cool to see comparison tests of various guns in their original default form, straight out of the box.
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:19 PM   #4
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

I agree that there can be a lot of variability in user preference, and also different applications. I personally would prefer to have bands that are relatively easy to pull back.
People can’t even decide what their preferred number of bands is, so I can’t blame a gun maker for not being a mind reader.

However, I’ve seen things that were disappointing on new guns - like floppers that are not tuned at all. Little things like that can cause terrible problems with lost fish.
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:22 PM   #5
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Is this where we post all the photos and videos of 'first shot ever with the new gun'?


I might be wrong but au think he was aiming more at the larger manufacturers rather than the smaller passionate ones.

The easy explanation is laziness and money. They deliver a gun that can shoot fish. If you can make that gun better, stronger and more accurate, great! But its like buying a car. You get what you pay for. Either you buy a Ferrari straight away and you dont have to touch it. Or you buy a VW and tweak the shit out of it and get similar performance.
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Old 06-14-2018, 05:00 PM   #6
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

Well, We have to remember that gunbuilders make guns for the mayority of the people. Most gun buyers are newbies and a standard gun must be easy to load, fit several type of hands, have a reasonable cost and kill fish.
When you become more experienced, you start to tweak your gear to your preferences.
But you're right that they could do something better overall.
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Old 06-14-2018, 05:09 PM   #7
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

I have no issues with bands being too slack. The ones I don't like make guns that are poorly designed, kick like a mule and don't shoot straight.

Those that have not changed over the last few years, still using low handles and too many bands.

I also don't like when the trigger misfires, the shafts are too big, the floppers suck, the gun is poorly balanced in the water etc etc. Funny thing is there are cheap guns that get these things right and even some relatively expensive guns commercially sold still do it wrong.
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:05 PM   #8
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

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Originally Posted by BenGreen View Post
Fair point and I agree to a certain extent. The problem I have is when it's basically just expected and almost required to modify something to get the set up right, which has been my experience with most guns. Maybe I am just too picky and have the bar set too high; just think more can be done from the gun builders to ship guns that are awesome out of the box. Would be really cool to see comparison tests of various guns in their original default form, straight out of the box.
Sounds as though there is a market opening.

I bet any manufacturer that could get everything right out of the box would make a killing.

Who wants to go into the fabrication business with me?
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:39 PM   #9
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

I wish i could buy majd's version of a carbon pathos (or any railgun) 140 right out of the box.
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:53 PM   #10
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

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I wish i could buy majd's version of a carbon pathos (or any railgun) 140 right out of the box.
Doesn't look like he is hurting for money, but there is definately a business opportunity there. I would be interested as well...
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:11 PM   #11
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

any CUSTOM gun is going to have the customer specify type and size of bands etc. If you are looking for someone to TELL you that a certain gun is set up perfectly- that is different from it being MAJ"D approved. Regardless of what people say on sb - the truth is - most custom gun buyers want what THEY want - not what YOU have necessarily selected for them. People ask for enclosed tracks - for instance - in such over whelming numbers - despite what Maj'd has said about them. Tube guns in general - are still seen as sub standard by most spearos that own wood guns - despite all that testing - people want what they want. Mid handles - with enclosed tracks - with (3) 5/8"bands are out there - killing lots of fish - maybe they could get more accurate kill shots with a RH tube gun with slim bands - slim spear - ergo grip- but without pool tests of their own - who knows.
It's easy to read SB articles and forget that over whelmingly - spearos don't go on here and as such - don't even know about anybodys testing.
Guns with those ergonomic grips aren't for everyone - my guess is around one in 5 likes those . - they may give some tiny boost in test settings but they don't make versatile shooting at different angles easy - so almost everyone - given a choice - will opt out of those grips - despite tests.
If any builder declared they had the perfect gun - i would tend to be skeptical as a general rule - It's like saying - you have the best jeans - some of it is provable - but at the end of the day - it's personal preference.' Oh - and I have the perfect gun.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:37 PM   #12
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

I don't know Ben. Obviously riffe guns fall into that category as far as setup is concerned, but the mechs are pretty bulletproof and the things hold up well. They also have a wide range of guns and sell a shit ton. I think John at Ulusub does a great job setting his up his guns, as I do own a 172 midhandle of his and haven't touched it setup wise except shortening the bands, as I like them at 380 percent. Ballasting is perfect and I use that thing on tuna more than any of my own, of which I have many. It's not as pretty as some of the multi wood, epoxied guns but takes a beating on the boat well! And then there is the master himself, Mori! Every gun tuned to perfection. From Mech and ballast, to finish and killng fish! I assume you are talking seabass and yellowtail, No? I hunt bluewater and base my experiance on that, I dont shoot anything other than wood so my opinion is limited.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:27 AM   #13
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

Rob allen kills good out of the box! Ulusub seem good too. Sea sniper no problem. Memo’s guns (local La Paz Builder) are exactly what you ask for but still i am VERY specific in what i want and end up moddifying and or doing work. Its not a burden itals part of my bonding with my weapon.

I get and see your point as far as most of the manufacturers go. And COMPLETELY AGREE. Its disrespectful to sell some of the guns they sell like that!
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:53 AM   #14
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

So far I have owned, or have had at least a few hours of experience with-

Pathos
Teaksea
Riffe
ElGreko
Kap
Koah

By far the best guns have been teaksea and Koah.

Teaksea is repped by Spear America, who has their customers backs no matter what, and will fix what ever they have to, on their dime, to make sure their customers are happy. Even if it's just because of the customers "preference" on a product.

I by Koah direct from John, who backs his work about the best one can. Seriously- I'll send you the gun, if you don't like a single thing about it I'll send you a full refund and a return label on the spot. Granted, you will never have to do that, because his guns rock.

Buy from who supports their product, and has their customers back.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:14 AM   #15
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Re: WTF is wrong with gun manufacturers???

Memosub from La Paz Mxico are exactly what you're looking for... A work of perfection
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