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Old 02-12-2019, 07:39 PM   #121
SEA_ARCHER
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Hey GR, just a double wrap. That mono from RedTide is holographic man. This gun is a 130 so double wrap gives me plenty of range. I use 2 bands with the 7.5 shaft and put in a 3rd band when using 8 or 8.5 mm shafts. All great Red Tide / SC shafts.
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:20 AM   #122
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Wow ... nice job! I thought I was the only crazy enough to put a full DR on a Pathos, but that has turned out to be my most accurate and powerful pipe gun. With the new D1 DR trigger, you can just pop it in and use the existing butt pad and you are set. Of course for best results you would need to mod the handle. With the D2, I really hate the butt pad as it sort of is just a rubber plug that doesn't give you a clean line of sight. I did a 3D design of a new butt pad for the Sniper and made it of super thin plastic. The idea was to use the shape where the CF would wrap around it and give it the strength needed. I put a CF sleeve on the inside and another on the outside ... and it is incredibly strong and much stronger than the original butt pad. Although I have a 3D printer, I decided to do use Shapeways to do the plastic printing as they use laser to melt the plastic and that is much stronger. I actually think that if I designed the plastic thicker I wouldn't even need the CF ... or maybe just a top CF sleeve. I did lose the detail of the channel I had put in the 3D design but to be honest it seems that it is not needed. I also thought of using the metal printing, but it wouldn't accept my thin walls unless I did it in Titanium (way too expensive). If I did thicker walls I was worried things would get too heavy. Here is some pix of how I am setting up the handles for the new full DR trigger for the D2. Still haven't had time to finish it off, but it seems like it will be very good once I put a layer of epoxy and some sanding and a friction layer on the grip.






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Old 03-26-2019, 09:50 PM   #123
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Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Sorry if it’s already answered- though this thread is very informative it can be hard to follow the updates (and google translator doesn’t do the best job of translating Mario’s site to English)

Has a complete, properly working double roller been produced for the d2 handle yet? If so, can one order just the new sear to fix their older generation Ermessub d2 DR?

If not, is our best bet buying a d1 handle and d1 DR trigger?

Though the 1st gen d2 DR trigger works, it is unreliable and can be painfully hard to pull on a test gun I’ve built which is powered way up. (Pathos 130 inverted roller with 6 x 16mm bands, 8mm hunt shaft and 350% max stretch) - shoots great but the unpredictability and hard pull of the trigger are tough

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Old 03-27-2019, 11:53 AM   #124
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

I don’t think the d’angelo 2 or 3 DR trigger has been revised. Not sure if Mario is considering it.

For me it works fine but in the setup I am using it is not stressed to it’s maximum potential!

Not sure if it would work but maybe you could exchange the front roller with one made of UHMW? Just thinking out loud here. The front roller would still work on friction but it would slide better. The problem with this could be the compression and deformation of the uhmw. It is worth trying though.
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Old 03-28-2019, 01:27 AM   #125
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Yes both triggers I have been testing for a while and they work perfect. Unfortunately the sears will not work with the old box. I actually put a lot of time and effort to get these to work right and decided to help Mario with this. I cut out an existing Pathos trigger boxes and high resolution scanned them and then transferred the drawings to a 3D program and designed the sears to fit perfectly. The scanned box turned out to have a little difference than his first box ... but at least this fits absolutely perfect and is actually a better fit than the original Pathos trigger. I cut out the sears using CNC ... that is something that is just crazy expensive and probably the sear itself cost several times the cost of all the other parts. But I wanted some working versions of these for myself and I don't mind paying extra. The way it works is that if you make 10 parts CNC is not much more to make 100 parts ... and so I just made extra for Mario and took the hit on the cost of these. So if you can get these with CNC sears before they run out I highly recommend it. I think once they run out he will go to a laser cut sear which I feel are not as good. Or most likely he will not do any more of these as they are way too much of a headache to get right and financially just not worth the effort and he is not enthusiastic on these triggers. I tested the D2 with a very powerful Sniper 125 with 8mm shaft and 380% stretch on 14.8mm bands ...very hot load ... worked perfect. The D1 is obviously even better as it is able to use a 6mm roller (D2 could only fit a 4.1mm roller). Of course this could be overkill as Salvimar has their new trigger rated at 350 KG and it only uses a 3.2mm roller ... but I don't buy that and I think you need as big a roller as possible. I personally like to over design everything as much as possible and trust me I squeezed out every bit I could out of the D2 trigger. The D2 trigger has a small issue with the line release being a bit loose and it allows the line release to move too much forward ... apparently too much polishing of the part made it lose some metal. This is easily fixed by bending the line release as you only need like .1mm to get it perfect, but this shouldn't be something anyone has to do. I told Mario to make some new ones and not to polish as much or to just add .1mm to the tolerance for the new line release and maybe add a couple mm to make it slightly longer. I can safely say that both triggers are now awesome ... Pathos gun owners are in for a treat as the legendary accuracy possible with the double roller trigger is now there!
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:58 PM   #126
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Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Thanks for the reply!

Mario just emailed me back saying the CNC version of the D2 DR had a 6.6mm sear. Am I lost in translation here? Which is correct?


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Old 04-02-2019, 01:28 AM   #127
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by pbguy420 View Post
Thanks for the reply!

Mario just emailed me back saying the CNC version of the D2 DR had a 6.6mm sear. Am I lost in translation here? Which is correct?


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Actually 6.7mm. That basically leaves you with only .3mm space left from the 7mm ... but I like that because it centers the shaft sear perfectly. Problem is that the boxes did not come out perfect and this tolerance is causing a large rejection of many boxes. I would say only 30% of the boxes work with the CNC sear as even .25mm of tolerance gone and the sear will get squished. But I guess if you want the biggest roller possible you need to squeeze out every mm. He does also have a laser cut sear which is 6mm and works well with all boxes ... but obviously will have a smaller roller. I think that also will work well for loads up to a 120cm gun ... but if you want to go for 130cm or 140cm and do a build based on a very powerful setup, for sure the larger roller will be nice to have. I tested it with a very powerful setup using 140cm band stretch on 2 x 14.8mm small ID bands and an 8mm shaft and the CNC worked beautifully. Haven't tried the other sear that is laser cut yet.

The D1 has much more space and on the CNC sear it has a massive 6mm roller. That is even larger than the normal DR that uses a 4.8mm roller. The non CNC sear on the D1 is exactly the same roller as the standard DR. Obviously if you have a choice and can go with either trigger ... I would choose the D1 trigger. It is a much better handle ergonomically ... better loading pad ... and also much cheaper. But if you want to use the Pathos Sniper ... then you need to go with the D2 trigger.
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Old 04-03-2019, 02:48 PM   #128
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

I think I understand now. So when I purchase his D2 DR with CNC sear is he selling them as a full kit with a working box?

If not, it sounds like I could run into the issue of the sear being too tight in the box?


I appreciate your help here as I’m trying to get the best performance out of this handle and google translate can make asking him these questions difficult.

I could always go with d1 handles and the d1 DR but I’ve already put a lot of work doing your handle mod and finishing them nicely with epoxy so I don’t want to toss my two D2 handles if I can make them work


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Old 05-10-2019, 08:13 PM   #129
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

My friend has had so many problems with the original mech in this Pathos. I had a few of these Double Roll mechs sitting around..

I know/Think this is structurally sound. The Back Screw is an inch long with a heavy thread. The Front ones should hold to try this out Probably wind up reshaping maybe reinforce the Front screws with two thin Machine Screws as posts and then cover. Scuffed up the mech with 40 grit to get good contact. West Systems G-flex with Microballoon. The bedding.
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:16 PM   #130
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
My friend has had so many problems with the original mech in this Pathos. I had a few of these Double Roll mechs sitting around..I know/Think this is structurally sound. The Back Screw is an inch long with a heavy thread. The Front ones should hold to try this out Probably wind up reshaping maybe reinforce the Front screws with two thin Machine Screws as posts and then cover. Scuffed up the mech with 40 grit to get good contact. West Systems G-flex with Microballoon. The bedding.
nice Frankenshooter effort Jon! great having same mech in both pipegun and wood gun eh
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:45 PM   #131
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Not done yet. that was just to get the seating. Need to cover and make nice. Not my gun, my dive buddies. Kind of a pain in the ass to need to replace the mechs in those guns, but she was pulling the trigger a few times just pointing at a big Mahi the other day and that was the final straw..
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:51 PM   #132
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Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Not done yet. that was just to get the seating. Need to cover and make nice. Not my gun, my dive buddies. Kind of a pain in the ass to need to replace the mechs in those guns, but she was pulling the trigger a few times just pointing at a big Mahi the other day and that was the final straw..


Why did you choose this version of the mechanism and not the drop in replacement? I think it does the job equally well and it’s easier to install.

Nice work though.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:02 AM   #133
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
Why did you choose this version of the mechanism and not the drop in replacement?
quite a few of us have a spare Ermes DR mech or two lying around, and to be honest I prefer the full size DR mech to the D'Angelo version. having all my mechs interchangeable is great
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:21 AM   #134
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Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
My friend has had so many problems with the original mech in this Pathos. I had a few of these Double Roll mechs sitting around..



I know/Think this is structurally sound. The Back Screw is an inch long with a heavy thread. The Front ones should hold to try this out Probably wind up reshaping maybe reinforce the Front screws with two thin Machine Screws as posts and then cover. Scuffed up the mech with 40 grit to get good contact. West Systems G-flex with Microballoon. The bedding.


Heya Jon,

Looks good but I have to play the Devil's Advocate here for a sec - micro balloons/microspheres pretty much ranks the lowest in terms of structural strength of all the different fillers. An epoxy + microspheres mix is brittle and not particularly strong. Microfibers, on the other hand, would be a better filler for this use.

I've used microspheres quite a bit but always mixed in a stronger filler, like chopped carbon fiber or something similar. That way I got low density plus adequate strength.



Probably it's not a real world issue for your friend's gun as I am sure you have the trigger mech resting against the front of the pocket and there's the rear screw, too. But just felt I had to mention it, no disrespect. Just something to keep in mind:-)



(Also, "good" to see other people had problems with the stock trigger - it does validate Majd's findings even though some people said it couldn't be so.)

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Old 05-15-2019, 01:21 AM   #135
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

A full DR Long trigger will always be a much better trigger than any drop in DR trigger ... this is especially true for the D2 handle where the limitations of the trigger width create a lot of compromises. With the D1, it actually is very very good and I would say it is 95% as good as the normal DR trigger. The 5% would be that it is a little shorter and the line release is not as wide ... but it uses the same full front roller as a DR trigger and I can shoot it with the same crazy accuracy. The D2 is maybe an even easier mod job than the D1 as you only have to shave a little off for the line release to go in ... but to be honest I am still not happy with it and wouldn't recommend it. Functionally it works and it shoots, and is probably a big upgrade to the original D2 trigger ... but I can't get the same crazy good accuracy with it. Obviously my criteria is much different than most people and there are a lot of people very happy with the D2 DR trigger, but in my case I would not use it and just suffer and do a full install of a full DR Long Trigger mod. There are new boxes being made for the D2 and that might solve all the problems ... until then I consider the D2 trigger a work in progress.

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