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Old 01-24-2016, 02:53 PM   #1
spearq8
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Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

I brought this gun with me from Europe after Xmas vacation and decided to give it a run down. Although the CF finish is not C4 class it is quite good. Design is absolutely perfect and I would change very little ... but the finish could be improved. I found that the trigger slot was about 1mm off center which means the shaft is sitting 1mm off the center of the trigger. That could cause excessive wear long term on the trigger. Not sure why it is that way. Also the handle does not seem to have CF wrapping on it and had a small piece chip off during transport (was easy to epoxy back on again). Another thing I didn't like were the band slots ... my god they were ridiculously small and I have never had so much trouble putting bands in and those were 14mm bands! I had to use silicone grease and tons of elbow grease to get the band in. I can't imagine putting in the recommended 16 small ID bands in! One more thing that bothered me was that there was a spectra loop at the bottom of the handle that seemed to have been cast in the handle ???!!! What happens when that line wears off???

Anyway to the good stuff ... the gun shoots as good as it looks and is superbly accurate. The handle is fantastic and absorbs recoil perfectly. The gun has frontal band elevators that put the bands in line with the bands and that really keeps the shaft stable in flight. Handle is way up there in the CG of the gun. The reverse trigger is not the crispest trigger out there and I think can be improved. I also couldn't help but feel that the gun could use an extra 10cm of band stretch really well and might have made a 7.5mm shaft a possibility. As it was with 110cm of band stretch it simply is not enough to push a 7.5mm shaft (I did try). Gun came with a funky Ghost shaft that has a part of the shaft cut out and a hidden flopper that gets tucked inside the shaft. The problem was that to hold the flopper, a thick "O" ring was used and that apparently hurts velocity quite a bit although accuracy was perfect.

Best results were with a Sporasub America One shaft and although I used a 150cm shaft @ 7mm ... probably a 140cm or 145cm shaft would be a better fit. The added mass of the 150cm shaft might have helped with longer shots though. Here is the video test.

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Old 01-24-2016, 11:25 PM   #2
Diving Gecko
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

Thanks for this - I was actually wondering the other day if you had had a chance to check out the new Ghost spears:-).

I have to admit, I was never really sold on the idea of o-rings on floppers. Maybe coming from sailboat racing and thinking a lot about hydrodynamics is why I felt it was one of those one step forward and one or two backwards things.

At one point, I actually did have a Torsion2 shaft on my Sporasub One Air but on pneumatics, where the shaft has no shark-fins, the o-ring ends up on the shooting line after a shot - such a hassle in reloading. I was hoping it would work without the o-ring but no dice.
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Old 01-25-2016, 03:08 PM   #3
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

Yes the O ring is a real PIA as you have to located it and then wiggle it back to the front again. If it breaks or gets lost ... hmm probably need to go back to the boat and get another O ring as the Ghost flopper has a spring that forces the flopper out and unlike a normal flopper that will lay flat when you shoot it ... the spring would keep it open and am sure will cause havoc with the shot. Also the O ring used is quite thick and seems to hurt velocity by a surprising amount. I was not able to improve velocity by moving from 14mm Primeline to the much more powerful Sigalsub 14.5mm bands ... but the same conditions dramatically improved velocity on the Sporasub shaft.

I would not give up on that shaft yet and there was an old Sporasub shaft that had a very thing metal ring that would hold the tip of the flopper. The ring would immediately go back when it penetrates a fish but had a very thin stopper a couple of inches behind the flopper. Something similar to that could be used here and am sure would make the Ghost shaft a much more viable option.




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Old 01-25-2016, 06:56 PM   #4
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

nice video! thanks for sharing!
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Old 01-29-2016, 09:03 AM   #5
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

As an update ... I tried a 145cm @ 7.5mm shaft and increased the power of the 14.5mm bands to 370% stretch. For some reason I couldn't get good consistent groupings and the trigger just didn't feel right. At first I thought it was the lack of cone or proper recessing of the flopper on the Sigal shaft, but then when I switched back to the very accurate Sporasub 7mm shaft ... again I couldn't get accurate shots off anymore. The trigger felt completely different and I figured I must have damaged it. Sure enough when I opened it up the sears were totally gouged out. I fixed the trigger by polishing the sears and it was super crisp and nice but after about 20 shots again things went south. I had a spare identical trigger and put that on ... but in the meantime I really cannot recommend that trigger if you plan on pushing this gun to its maximum potential. I contacted Mario, the trigger guru from Ermessub and sent him pix of the sears and he seems to think that the contact angles are too shallow and thus causing problems. I also contacted Sigalsub and sent them pix of the damaged sears and hopefully they can fix it. If you have the Sigalsub 110 gun I recommend you cut your bands a little more conservative to around 340% until the trigger issue is resolved.
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Old 01-29-2016, 12:27 PM   #6
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

Could these issues possibly have affected the 6M penetration tests?
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Old 01-29-2016, 12:53 PM   #7
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Could these issues possibly have affected the 6M penetration tests?
No, not at all. This only affects accuracy. I was trying to pass the 6 meter penetration test by adding more power, but I guess the trigger didn't like that. But generally speaking 2 x 14.5mm bands should not damage any trigger especially at 110cm band stretch ... so I consider this a problem with the trigger. I have found that this is actually quite a common problem with a lot of reverse triggers, especially the longer lever triggers. Personally I just think that most gun makers don't test their equipment enough otherwise something like this would have shown up. There are two main problems with triggers ... one is the wearing out of the shaft sear hook when you use very high carbon shafts and the shaft sear metal is too soft ... the other is friction between the shaft sear and trigger sear as you add power. This is especially a problem with reverse triggers and they need to be designed properly to work well. A speargun trigger is totally different than a firearm trigger in that the sears are under tremendous pressure, with firearms sears they only carry the load of the firing pin spring. So angles have to be perfect so that the sear don't drag over each other and eat each other up. If the sears are not perfectly aligned then one edge of the sears will dig into the other as it will have a sharp end being forced into a flat end. Once this happens it quickly deteriorates and the trigger pull becomes difficult to control as the shaft let off happens unpredictably. I guess this is a much more serious problem than most people realize, but since the only effect is that you won't shoot accurately ... and most spearguns are not setup to shoot accurately ... very few people will notice the problem.

Last edited by spearq8; 01-29-2016 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:59 PM   #8
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

Would it be possible to put a ermes sub dr trigger in this gun or would it require major work on the trigger pocket?


“I hate storms, but calms undermine my spirits”
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:23 AM   #9
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
Would it be possible to put a ermes sub dr trigger in this gun or would it require major work on the trigger pocket?


“I hate storms, but calms undermine my spirits”

I actually did do this mod a while back and will try and find pictures of this. I think I also did a video but didn't post it. Unfortunately this gun looked so good and shot so well ... that a friend of mine borrowed it and haven't seen it since. I gave up on fixing the original trigger as I realized that it was just a "galling" problem with the sears. I had a very nice custom Black DR Trigger (black due to Diamond coating or DLC coating) and used it ... the gun came out incredibly nice looking. Obviously with the DR trigger all the trigger problems were gone and the gun shot amazingly well.

The mod was quite easy actually ... I just added two epoxy putty bulbs to the side of the mech pocket to allow the arms of a DR trigger and then fit a DR trigger on it and then put a CF cover over everything to match the original CF. I also took advantage of the opportunity and adjusted the handle to push recoil straight back into palm. Gun was a one hole shooter at 5 meters. Gun design is actually very good, but unfortunately the original trigger scratching made the gun shoot very inaccurately after only a few shots.

Edit: I found a picture of the initial stages of the mod on my iphone. I know I have a bunch of these with progress, but need to search and find them.
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Last edited by spearq8; 11-07-2018 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 11-07-2018, 02:13 AM   #10
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

Thank you so much for the answer and even more for doing all this testing!

I am looking for a 110 Mediterranean gun to hunt on the reef for Dentex and such. Originally I was hoping to build one but the lack of time makes me consider other options.

At present I am in doubt between the Denton 110 and this one. How would you compare those for this purpose? Personally I am leaning heavily towards the sigalsub now that I know the trigger mod is possible and straight forward.


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Old 11-07-2018, 11:28 PM   #11
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

Built quality of the Abellan is much better and can be used without any modification. Build quality of the Sigal was not so good. The handle doesn't have any CF wrap and actually cracked and a big piece came off (had to glue it back and then just CF wrapped the handle with a mod. The front holes for the muzzle are way way too tight ... only way to put in 2 x 14mm bands is to use silicone grease and pull really hard. The trigger needs to be replaced also as it scratches. And another thing I didn't like was the front band elevators sort of just stick out at 90 degrees, which would snag the line sometimes during shooting. I ended up padding that with epoxy putty to a cuttle shape and CF over that. Gun design of the Sigal is excellent with high handle and shoots exactly where you aim.

The Abellan is CNC machined so the finish is better. For me it also needs work as the front SS edges of the muzzle need to be filed and burred down. The trigger works fine out of the box ... but for sure changing it out to a DR trigger improves things. Handle shape needs adjustment as you get a lot of left shift with the default handle. All these issues have supposedly been taken care off with the US version of the Abellan ... so have to say I am very interested to see how that comes out as it would be perfect without any modification.

Another thing to note is the Sigal 110 is to be compared to an Abellan 100 as the new Abellan sizing configuration has dropped one size.

A good option for a 100 sized gun is just get a cheap Pathos 100 and mod it with a DR trigger and a handle mod. At the smaller sizes of 80 to 100 cm ... a pipe gun makes a lot of sense and if you mod it correctly, can shoot just as good as guns costing 4x or more.
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:16 AM   #12
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
Built quality of the Abellan is much better and can be used without any modification. Build quality of the Sigal was not so good. The handle doesn't have any CF wrap and actually cracked and a big piece came off (had to glue it back and then just CF wrapped the handle with a mod. The front holes for the muzzle are way way too tight ... only way to put in 2 x 14mm bands is to use silicone grease and pull really hard. The trigger needs to be replaced also as it scratches. And another thing I didn't like was the front band elevators sort of just stick out at 90 degrees, which would snag the line sometimes during shooting. I ended up padding that with epoxy putty to a cuttle shape and CF over that. Gun design of the Sigal is excellent with high handle and shoots exactly where you aim.

The Abellan is CNC machined so the finish is better. For me it also needs work as the front SS edges of the muzzle need to be filed and burred down. The trigger works fine out of the box ... but for sure changing it out to a DR trigger improves things. Handle shape needs adjustment as you get a lot of left shift with the default handle. All these issues have supposedly been taken care off with the US version of the Abellan ... so have to say I am very interested to see how that comes out as it would be perfect without any modification.

Another thing to note is the Sigal 110 is to be compared to an Abellan 100 as the new Abellan sizing configuration has dropped one size.

A good option for a 100 sized gun is just get a cheap Pathos 100 and mod it with a DR trigger and a handle mod. At the smaller sizes of 80 to 100 cm ... a pipe gun makes a lot of sense and if you mod it correctly, can shoot just as good as guns costing 4x or more.


Thank you for your sharing your experiences.

Ideally I would prefer a gun that requires no work at all or build one myself completely.

I am in contact with Simone from Sigalsub and some customization might be an option. Let’s see where that leads to.

The long awaited new version of the Denton seems quite some time away and I don’t want to wait for it. I need a working solution before next season.
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:29 AM   #13
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Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

Just had a look at the Sigalsub Team 110 trigger issue. I think that installing the Ermes sub DR could be even easier.
If you look at both views it seems that the DR back version could be a drop-in replacement if just the housing for the trigger could be adjusted slightly. The hole for the pin at the rear needs to be moved further backwards. An easy fix it seems to me.


Compare the Sigalsub Jako trigger.

I would not be afraid of printing a custom titanium housing for the DR trigger so I could avoid some of the CF work.

Last edited by kodama; 11-08-2018 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:45 AM   #14
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Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

@ spearq8. Do you have any pictures of the modifications you have done to the band raisers?
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:58 AM   #15
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Re: Sigalsub CF 110 speargun test

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@ spearq8. Do you have any pictures of the modifications you have done to the band raisers?

You are way overthinking this, if you have the gun I can walk you through it as it really is not very difficult. You actually don't need any CF for the trigger and you don't need the arms of the DR (you can drill through holes) ... but I like to have them as it allows me to absolutely tune in the height of the mech with the track. I find the secret to getting very high shaft stability is to have a shaft that doesn't have to jump down (or up) into a track as it exits the mechanism. The back roller on the DR trigger is the only trigger I know that can release the shaft without a mini jump ... but for best results you want the shaft to be perfectly seated so that when it is released, it also doesn't drop down to the track. Problem is that not all shafts use the same tolerances and the tail height can vary. With wings you can always adjust that by adding or removing tiny washers ... with a pinned mech you are stuck with one setting and I find it is incredibly difficult to get perfect mech height with a pinned trigger ... especially with different shafts ... you just have to compromise and go with one set height that is compatible with a wide range of shafts.

I looked for pix but unfortunately did not find them yet. But if I remember correctly the mech of the Sigal was very wide ... about 16.5mm ... the DR is only 14.6mm ... so very easy fit and you just need to close the gaps around the mech with epoxy with a high density filler (or milled CF) with dye to keep aesthetics good. If the mech pocket is tight and you have a solid screw in the back ... the mech is not going to go anywhere and the arm screws are not stressed. The back of the DR has a pretty big hole that allows a strong bolt to be used if you need it. But again I like the arms to control mech height.
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