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Old 07-23-2018, 02:28 PM   #91
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

I definitely see the potential in this setup. while my 130 has a deangelo 2 handle and the ermes pathos roller that doesnt roll, it is still the most accurate speargun I have shot. While I can't drop shot after shot through the same hole like on your video, I put some good groups together out past 6 meters and have killed some nice fish with it already. The perfectionist in me wants this gun to reach its full potential though. So I get to wait for a better ermes trigger or I get to start a deangelo 1 handle project. Fun gun to shoot though.
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:00 AM   #92
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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I definitely see the potential in this setup. while my 130 has a deangelo 2 handle and the ermes pathos roller that doesnt roll, it is still the most accurate speargun I have shot. While I can't drop shot after shot through the same hole like on your video, I put some good groups together out past 6 meters and have killed some nice fish with it already. The perfectionist in me wants this gun to reach its full potential though. So I get to wait for a better ermes trigger or I get to start a deangelo 1 handle project. Fun gun to shoot though.

For sure a good trigger will improve accuracy by quite a bit. A DR trigger is very good at keeping shaft flight stable as the back roller allows the shaft to just glide out of the mech, without having to jump over the speed bumb that is usually present in a normal shaft sear. The front roller ensures that the break off point stays consistent and allows you to time your shots to perfection. This combination has a huge impact on accuracy and I am sure if you had the same setup I am shooting in the video you would get similar results to what I am getting.

Good news is that a full DR version of the D1 is in the works and should be out soon. As for the D2 ... little more complicated as you have only 10mm to work with for the box (compared to 14mm for the D1). But I think this will happen as well as I have a good idea to gain 3mm for things to work well. Not sure if Mario will be interested in it but in simulation on my computer it works as good as a full DR trigger. These things always need to be tested to make sure they work though, but I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. I might bite the bullet and cut some sears and be the guinea pig as I have a bunch of D2 handles that would love to have DR triggers on.

In the meantime, the D1 mod I did for a full DR trigger is really not difficult with a D1 handle. You just need the sanding bit for a dremel (which is about 14mm) and you just remove a little material. You then shave off a little for the line release and file off two channels to let the back of the trigger fit. Then with some epoxy putty you just put some putty under the arms. You need to level and center everything, but this is easy to do by just placing a full DR mech box (without internals) with a shaft in the mech box. The shaft flat top will make sure you have the correct height ... and the rest is just centering. You can tape up your mech with electric tape and then add some epoxy with graphite filler and some fibers and put it on the walls of the mech and then put the taped up and centered and levelled mech and you have a perfect new mech box slot. Now you just need to cut off the tip of the bottom of your trigger sear as it will be too long for the D1 handle guard. Sure it is some work but really nothing too difficult. Results are well worth the effort. With a full DR trigger I think you get the added advantage of being able to add washers to move the trigger up or down ... with the new DR trigger for the D1 you will not have that option. It is not a game changer but is nice to be able to move a trigger a few fractions of an mm up or down for a perfect fit as not all shafts use the same tolerances.

Last edited by spearq8; 07-30-2018 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:48 PM   #93
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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........I have since put the gun through quite a lot of shots ... also put it with a 130 barrel and 8mm shaft at extremely high stretch......http://youtu.be/K-sN4pQkWSU
Majd - are you seeing any barrel bend/flex as you power the pipe up that much? I assume thats stock Pathos 28mm ID carbon pipe you're using?

Given your results I assume if there is any barrel distortion its not affecting the accuracy even on long shots.

Am using alum pipe [Rob Allen, slightly thicker wall 28mm ID than Pathos] on my DR mech pipegun project, and just a bit concerned that barrel stiffness may hamper things as I load things up with that mech? seem to recall that was an issue in the old days messing around with twin 20mm bands on aly railguns, hence Rabi and others bringing out crazy heavy pipes, which of course sank like a stone

muzzle band slot is tight horizontal so both bands pulling from as close to shaft axis as possible......
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Old 08-02-2018, 01:11 PM   #94
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Majd - are you seeing any barrel bend/flex as you power the pipe up that much? I assume thats stock Pathos 28mm ID carbon pipe you're using?

Given your results I assume if there is any barrel distortion its not affecting the accuracy even on long shots.

Am using alum pipe [Rob Allen, slightly thicker wall 28mm ID than Pathos] on my DR mech pipegun project, and just a bit concerned that barrel stiffness may hamper things as I load things up with that mech? seem to recall that was an issue in the old days messing around with twin 20mm bands on aly railguns, hence Rabi and others bringing out crazy heavy pipes, which of course sank like a stone

muzzle band slot is tight horizontal so both bands pulling from as close to shaft axis as possible......
Actually I have never noticed that but I think with the aluminium pipe the longest length I have shot it with is 120 ... maybe at 130 things are different. If you are really worried about flex you can easily fix that by just putting a Carbon Fiber sleeve over the aluminium pipe. I have done that on several guns (including the Pathos Sniper) and it seems that the O rings still work perfect if you turn the CF inside the aluminium pipe at the end. You just need a plug that really pushes the CF in the inside of the aluminium pipe to have it neatly folded inside. CF is an amazing material and with sleeves it is really very easy to reinforce your speargun with. You can buy the sleeves from sollercomposites. You probably don't need a vacuum pump either to reinforce a pipe, you might be able to get away with just using the correct shrink wrap sleeves that they also sell. I think the CF would also help shaft velocity with the Pathos aluminium pipe as the track on those pipes feels like rough sand paper and the CF would make the track much slicker. I do have a 140cm aluminium pipe that I had planned to try and build a gun around. I had planned to put a slip on ballast (similar to what the Pathos uses on the roller kit mod but much bigger) and then slip a CF sleeve over the entire new shape. Add a double roller trigger to a modded Pathos D1 handle and I think you would have a very powerful and capable blue water gun for dirt cheap. With added buoyancy you could easily fit an 8mm shaft ... and with a 140 pipe you are talking about over 152cm of band stretch!
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:52 PM   #95
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Any news on the new double roller for the Deangelo 1 handle. Is ermes still planning on a true double roller for D2 handle?
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Old 10-14-2018, 04:20 AM   #96
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

The D1 for sure yes and first batch are getting put together. The D2 ... still under design ... not easy with a 7mm inner box, but good chance it might be possible.
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:09 PM   #97
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

I hope to see it soon. I keep checking the ermes site but my Italian is not so good and the google english translation isnt much better. I am pretty sure the mech on their site for the D1 handle is not a double roller mech but the older sideline release with traditional friction sear. Someone please give us a heads up when the D1 double roller becomes available.
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Old 11-14-2018, 06:57 PM   #98
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Hey Majd, I am almost done with my mod of the D1 handle. I did not use the long version as the version Benthic had was the "future" mech. I am trying to figure out what I want to use as a loading pad and noticed that ermes sells a D1 stainless loading pad. Have you tried this? I am hoping I can get it to fit the "future" mech. So far things have gone more smoothly than I anticipated but no shots fired just yet. I will probably get a few shots in the pool this week to make sure I am happy before trying the carbon fiber reinforcement.

Last edited by SEA_ARCHER; 11-14-2018 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:25 AM   #99
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

I have seen that SS pad and not sure if Mario is going to be making those again. It is for the Pathos D1 trigger that he made previously (Friction with Side Line Release). It does look cool. The new DR version for the D1 has the trigger slightly lower, so the original D1 loading pad can be used with no problems.

Let me know how your mod turns out. The DR trigger on the Pathos is really an amazing upgrade, especially when done with a handle mod. I can easily say that it makes the gun the most powerful and most accurate, pipe gun on earth! You are going to love it!
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:12 PM   #100
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

So is there any real world feedback on this trigger upgrade now for the D1 handle? I would hate to make the same mistake I made a few years ago and buy the upgrade to the D2 handle and still have to push the sear down by hand after every shot even after sanding (I still need to try and fix that). Is there a retailer stateside?

Thanks!
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:07 AM   #101
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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So is there any real world feedback on this trigger upgrade now for the D1 handle? I would hate to make the same mistake I made a few years ago and buy the upgrade to the D2 handle and still have to push the sear down by hand after every shot even after sanding (I still need to try and fix that). Is there a retailer stateside?

Thanks!
I have to admit Mario has been very sloppy with the last few releases and I made sure he understood that it is not smart to do that. He rushed out a few triggers without even bothering to test them for fit or even for functionality. For the 2 Pathos triggers (D1 and D2) I have been helping him make sure that he gets accurate measurements and the fit of these new triggers should actually be much better than the original. I also have been helping him with the 3D simulation of the triggers to make sure that everything works properly. He has sent me a couple of the latest double roller D2 triggers but have yet to test them. The D1 I am not too worried about as it has a tried and tested 8mm sear. The fit for the D1 has been improved to allow for the original loading pad that came with the Pathos D1 so the SS loading pad will not be necessary. I think the tolerances were way too sloppy and while that is sometimes necessary to make sure you have enough safety factor to get things working, there are ways where you can dramatically reduce the tolerances without affecting functionality and thus have a much higher quality product. These changes should carry over to the original double roller trigger and the new version should be a big improvement.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:12 AM   #102
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Hey Majd, I am almost done with my mod of the D1 handle. I did not use the long version as the version Benthic had was the "future" mech. I am trying to figure out what I want to use as a loading pad and noticed that ermes sells a D1 stainless loading pad. Have you tried this? I am hoping I can get it to fit the "future" mech. So far things have gone more smoothly than I anticipated but no shots fired just yet. I will probably get a few shots in the pool this week to make sure I am happy before trying the carbon fiber reinforcement.
I have heard of the Future DR but to be honest I have never tried it. I think it just uses the normal 8mm roller sear. It should work fine on the D1. The mod on the D1 is actually not so difficult as the cavity for the mech is very close to what you need and you have to remove very little material. The SS pad I don't recommend as many have had problems with it. Try and fit the original loading pad if possible. I don't remember the loading pad being a difficult thing to make work. I think I just shaped it and then strengthened it with CF.
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:02 AM   #103
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

I have finished the trigger and handle shaping and even taken a nice fish with this setup. The non pathos DR trigger is great. While it was a lot more work than the drop in floating roller for the D2 handle, there is a night and day difference in terms of performance. I have still not figured out what I am going to use as a loading pad. The way the future DR mech fit the D1 handle the rear screw is in the way of the pin for the D1 loading pad. The way I did my handle mod made this gun extremely comfortable to hold and shoot but extremely uncomfortable to load with just the handle. You can see in the above pic there is a fairly pointy edge of the handle and I have some nice bruising to show for my last trip out.
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:39 AM   #104
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

A little shapelock and imagination and you can come up with whatever you want for the butt pad
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:47 AM   #105
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Gun is shooting nicely


Not a fan of shapelock. For it to be strong enough to support this gun with three hot bands I would have to make it so thick that it would affect either my grip going down too low or my sight picture coming up too high. I have tried it on several handles with mixed results. I know others have had good results with it, but my shapelock skills must not be as good as theirs. I much prefer the idea of epoxy with carbon fiber reinforcement.

I have had a hard time finding someone in the US that sells the Stainless loading pad that ermes sells for the D1. I am probably going to try to make a loading pad out of epoxy with several wraps of carbon fiber reinforcement. I might trust the pathos nylon loading pad but also have been unable to find it in the US, and I think the screw for my modded trigger would also be in the way.

Last edited by SEA_ARCHER; 12-04-2018 at 12:52 PM.
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