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Old 04-03-2020, 12:37 PM   #1
carrasco
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Home Treatment and Ventilator Question Please Read

Hoping all is well with you and your families,
I would like to take advantage of the fact that there are members of our Spearboard community are very savvy on mechanical/technical matters.
I have a question on the plausibility making a makeshift ventilator using a small air compressor.
Should a senior or other loved one get sick with the virus, it would be ideal to have the ability to keep them at home for treatment. Some hospitals have become over-run and thinking of a backup plan is only sensible.

Also, does anyone know of a "Credible" how-to treat the virus at home video or guide?

I am a forward thinking person and thanks to that, I was able to purchase many essential items that are simply not available today. I am not taking about water and TP but items like: N95 masks at $2.50 each (which I have since donated), 90% isopropyl alcohol, new filters for my air purifiers.

Last, I prepared two comfortable living areas in the garage with essentials like added bedding, masks, gloves in the garage (yes with a TV) to isolate anyone in my family that may get sick. I would appreciate ideas on what else would be useful.

Anyway, please do chime in.
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:14 PM   #2
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Re: Home Treatment and Ventilator Question Please Read

If you can get a C-PAP, they are mentioned on news being used for covid-19. It seems that many people have sleep apnea; some may have an extra. I expect C-PAP’s are going to get scarce if not already scarce. I would add an oxygen concentrator to intake.

NewC-PAP’s cost a grand or more; not sure how much oxygen concentrators cost.
C-PAP’s need a dr’s prescription and probably oxygen concentrators

Another possibility- a hooka unit. They have a “safe” air supply. As you know many compressors do not provide air that is safe to breath.

Good luck. Stay Safe.
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Old 04-03-2020, 02:00 PM   #3
Bob Ballew
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Re: Home Treatment and Ventilator Question Please Read

...The weak link in home protection is the possibility of accidentally bringing the virus inside although you are isolated. Mail is a possible source...Putting your mail in sunlight (each side) for 15 minutes will kill viruses and germs. Groceries can be stored in the garage for 3 days until all germ activity ends, then, stock the cabinets....Outside, the most likely source is the gas pump handle and buttons when you fill up...Research has shown pump handles are the most filthy source of germs out there. They are never cleaned. We carry throwaway plastic gloves and wipes in each of our vehicles to protect our hands from contamination. Even then, we constantly wipe down the steering wheel, handles and buttons we touch daily.
...If you think April is bad, wait until May after companies have all posted quarterly income results, along with layoff numbers. The "earnings recession" has started and the only positive I see is a great opportunity to score some good grade stocks at low prices, if you are positioned to do so...
...When outside around others, wear a mask...you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.. As you can see, the "experts" are often a day late and a dollar
short....Regarding your question of treating, I am not aware of any reliable method of treatment except an oxygen supply to replace lung air intake...But, once that is necessary, it is often too late...Overweight and diabetic people are most at risk, along with us oldies. Good idea on the garage isolation plan. Time for us to cover that..

By the time this ends, many of us will be experts and all of us will be an authority on the subject of viruses....

Last edited by Bob Ballew; 04-03-2020 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 04-03-2020, 02:14 PM   #4
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Re: Home Treatment and Ventilator Question Please Read

if one showed up with a symptom, others in the family might already have it, but an isolated area in the garage is still a good idea. I'll probably get on that tonight. Thanks carrasco
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Old 04-03-2020, 10:14 PM   #5
PigStikr
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Re: Home Treatment and Ventilator Question Please Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by carrasco View Post
I have a question on the plausibility making a makeshift ventilator using a small air compressor.
Caveat: not a doctor, don't take this as medical advice.
Absoultely NOT! Standard air compressors are lubricated with oil. The oil will get down in your lungs and cause lipoid pneumonia. Furthermore, you won't get a higher percentage of O2, just more pressure that can kill by embolism - same as holding breath at depth while surfacing. A DAN oxygen rescue kit of some kind might help, but there is training involved. Another option might be EAN nitrox, the richest mix you can qualify for is typically 40%. You might need oxy-clean gear even for that. Above 40%, definitely you will need a special cert and gear. Why? Pure oxygen is highly reactive and any oil or lubricant (such as silicone o-ring sealant) will spontaneously combust, causing your valve to combust, and then the tank. Not good.
Unless you REALLY know what UR doing, don't even think about it.
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Old 04-04-2020, 12:29 AM   #6
carrasco
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Re: Home Treatment and Ventilator Question Please Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by PigStikr View Post
Caveat: not a doctor, don't take this as medical advice.
Absoultely NOT! Standard air compressors are lubricated with oil. The oil will get down in your lungs and cause lipoid pneumonia. Furthermore, you won't get a higher percentage of O2, just more pressure that can kill by embolism - same as holding breath at depth while surfacing. A DAN oxygen rescue kit of some kind might help, but there is training involved. Another option might be EAN nitrox, the richest mix you can qualify for is typically 40%. You might need oxy-clean gear even for that. Above 40%, definitely you will need a special cert and gear. Why? Pure oxygen is highly reactive and any oil or lubricant (such as silicone o-ring sealant) will spontaneously combust, causing your valve to combust, and then the tank. Not good.
Unless you REALLY know what UR doing, don't even think about it.
l

Doesnít sound like an April Fools response. Thanks, I will definitely keep my compressor put away!!!
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Old 04-05-2020, 11:41 PM   #7
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Re: Home Treatment and Ventilator Question Please Read

A proper medical ventilator has 17,000 parts and requires a trained professional to operate it. There is no way you are going to improvise one with an air compressor! I guess if my child was dying in my hands I would try anything, but don't count on saving anyone with something you could get at Harbor Freight. Except for gloves and face masks.
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Old 04-06-2020, 07:49 PM   #8
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Re: Home Treatment and Ventilator Question Please Read

Iím an ICU nurse with 12 years if bedside critical care experience, actively involved in treating patients with COVID-19. While I appreciate the sentiment of your post I do not believe that your idea is viable.

Thereís a lot that goes into managing any critically ill patient... a ventilator is only a tiny part of it. Even with an actual vent you would be unlikely to pull this one off. The patient would need to have a breathing tube which would require access to large quantities of narcotics/controlled substances, etc. and thatís only the very beginning.

As for using a CPAP or BiPAP machine: No. These are aerosolizing procedures, which significantly increase risk of caregivers themselves becoming infected. Also, chances are that if a patient gets sick enough to require that they will need a lot more than that to get better.

A better solution would be this:
1) practice diligent social distancing to minimize your chance of infection/caring infection to your loved ones or others and to flatten the curve.
2) have an honest conversation with your loved ones regarding their wishes should they become critically ill. What gives their lives meaning? Do they want to be kept alive on machines? What if they canít talk, eat, or drink? What is the minimum acceptable quality of life to them? Would they rather live longer with a lower quality of life, or have a higher quality of life for a potentially shorter time? If given a choice, would they rather die at home or in a hospital? Do they want CPR performed if their heart stops, do they want a breathing tube?

These are important things to know for all of us, not just in the time of COVID, but always, because we might be faced with these questions related to a loved one at any time and having those discussions in advance will help you when you have to speak for your loved one who is incapacitated.

Thatís part of my two cents. Stay healthy and safe.
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Old 04-07-2020, 02:16 AM   #9
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Re: Home Treatment and Ventilator Question Please Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Austinbalk View Post
I’m an ICU nurse with 12 years if bedside critical care experience, actively involved in treating patients with COVID-19. While I appreciate the sentiment of your post I do not believe that your idea is viable.

There’s a lot that goes into managing any critically ill patient... a ventilator is only a tiny part of it. Even with an actual vent you would be unlikely to pull this one off. The patient would need to have a breathing tube which would require access to large quantities of narcotics/controlled substances, etc. and that’s only the very beginning.

As for using a CPAP or BiPAP machine: No. These are aerosolizing procedures, which significantly increase risk of caregivers themselves becoming infected. Also, chances are that if a patient gets sick enough to require that they will need a lot more than that to get better.

A better solution would be this:
1) practice diligent social distancing to minimize your chance of infection/caring infection to your loved ones or others and to flatten the curve.
2) have an honest conversation with your loved ones regarding their wishes should they become critically ill. What gives their lives meaning? Do they want to be kept alive on machines? What if they can’t talk, eat, or drink? What is the minimum acceptable quality of life to them? Would they rather live longer with a lower quality of life, or have a higher quality of life for a potentially shorter time? If given a choice, would they rather die at home or in a hospital? Do they want CPR performed if their heart stops, do they want a breathing tube?

These are important things to know for all of us, not just in the time of COVID, but always, because we might be faced with these questions related to a loved one at any time and having those discussions in advance will help you when you have to speak for your loved one who is incapacitated.

That’s part of my two cents. Stay healthy and safe.
I can't believe you have time to post anything on here, but thank you for it!. God bless you, get some sleep, and thank you for doing what you can!!!

YES, shit is getting real. Please be humble and helpful everyone!
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Old 04-07-2020, 07:46 AM   #10
PigStikr
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Re: Home Treatment and Ventilator Question Please Read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Austinbalk View Post
I’m an ICU nurse with 12 years if bedside critical care experience, actively involved in treating patients with COVID-19. While I appreciate the sentiment of your post I do not believe that your idea is viable.

There’s a lot that goes into managing any critically ill patient... a ventilator is only a tiny part of it. Even with an actual vent you would be unlikely to pull this one off. The patient would need to have a breathing tube which would require access to large quantities of narcotics/controlled substances, etc. and that’s only the very beginning.

As for using a CPAP or BiPAP machine: No. These are aerosolizing procedures, which significantly increase risk of caregivers themselves becoming infected. Also, chances are that if a patient gets sick enough to require that they will need a lot more than that to get better.

A better solution would be this:
1) practice diligent social distancing to minimize your chance of infection/caring infection to your loved ones or others and to flatten the curve.
2) have an honest conversation with your loved ones regarding their wishes should they become critically ill. What gives their lives meaning? Do they want to be kept alive on machines? What if they can’t talk, eat, or drink? What is the minimum acceptable quality of life to them? Would they rather live longer with a lower quality of life, or have a higher quality of life for a potentially shorter time? If given a choice, would they rather die at home or in a hospital? Do they want CPR performed if their heart stops, do they want a breathing tube?

These are important things to know for all of us, not just in the time of COVID, but always, because we might be faced with these questions related to a loved one at any time and having those discussions in advance will help you when you have to speak for your loved one who is incapacitated.

That’s part of my two cents. Stay healthy and safe.
Well some people will just let other people die, and some people will try to help, regardless of personal risk. Special forces ops, for example, never leave anybody behind. So I think that it is a personal choice. If you don't want to treat someone with a CPAP because of the risk of infection, and if infected, the 1.5% risk of dying, that is fine. There are others who will, and they will save lives. A buddy of mine was in special ops. He jumped on a grenade to save his team. He wound up with one working arm. You'll probably remember him - BT Collins.
As far as 'quality of life' goes, my cousin had pretty severe down's syndrome. Usually people with that severe down's don't last long. My aunt spared no effort caring for him, even founding a group to help victims. He led a happy and fulfilling life and died among loving family members at the age of 55.
Unfortunately, there is always a slippery slope when it comes to euthanasia. It all starts out fine but winds up terminating the lives of the sick and elderly that are not 'useful to society'. Take Margaret Sanger, for example. She was into eugenics, believing that the world would be better off without the poor blacks. A huge majority of her abortion clinics are in poor, black neighborhoods as a result. There are photos of her meeting with the KKK. I guess the blacks needed to be put out of their misery.
The biggest joke is that her contemporary, Hitler, was into eugenics, and the promotion of the 'aryan' race - blue eyed blondes. Look at any photo of him - does he look blonde?
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Old 04-07-2020, 04:09 PM   #11
Ron S
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Re: Home Treatment and Ventilator Question Please Read

Austinbalk,
I just want to thank you so much for your service to your community and for everything you do. Both in my private and professional capacities I have had occasion to deal with folks in your profession and can’t even begin to tell you how much respect I and my family have for folks like you for not just what you do but how well you do it!
I also want to thank you for posting the information that you did. I know that with all you are dealing with right now, getting on a spearfishing forum, especially one as political and abrasive as this one can be, and taking the time to post such well written and accurate information, goes well above and beyond.
Just want you to know that most of us are with ya buddy!
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