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Old 01-12-2016, 03:18 AM   #61
Bob Ballew
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

Well, I did give you my advice on how to defend your position in order to get a fair trial...and like Bubba Gump said, "That's all I have to say about that".....good luck
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:20 AM   #62
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

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Originally Posted by Scuba Fever View Post
Don't think the FnG process is like the other legal systems of our society, cause it's not! Several years ago I went with a coworker to the Malibu Court to argue a ticket for a short lobster, caught off Palos Verdes. The guage would touch on both sides of the head, and actually stick when the bug was held upside down. The warden moved the guage forcefully back and forth until the guage would no longer hold on by its own friction. He even took the bug with him for EVIDENCE. No pictures were allowed. My friend was EVENTUALLY given a court date through the mail, with very stern language about not failing to show! When he appeared on the court date, after sitting for hours, the Warden did not show, so it was rescheduled. The next date was the same thing, no show by the warden. The cases ARE NOT THROWN OUT WHEN THE WARDEN FAILS TO SHOW! On the third court date, the Warden was there. When his case was called the Female judge, made a speech about how she takes Lobster cases very seriously, because as a diver herself, she knows how low the population has become! He was given the choice of pleading GUILTY or Innocent. Innocent plea, and he would be given another court Date for a FULL TRIAL! He was told he would have to pay all of the court fees even if he was found not guilty! So even if he won, it would cost him! They do this so minor offenses become cost prohibitive to fight them. He pleaded no contest and paid the fine with two years no fishing license, and five years probation. At least for my coworker, the process was rigged against fighting his case.
Sounds like a crappy stack of cards and some lame unprincipled nonsense once the thing got to court, as well as a bunk judge who wasn't being impersonal in the least, taking herself and her duties way too seriously and applying a very harsh sentence that most would say the crime (if any) didn't warrant.

However, it also sounds like your buddy took a clicker. If that's so, then he broke the law. Plain and simple.

If it's even the least bit questionable, it's always best to toss it back. We have to remember, collectively as well as individually, that our hunting activities are ultimately recreational. We're not counting on our catch for our survival. You can resent and fight the laws, get hung up on the questionable or bad decisions Wardens and judges make. On the other hand, you can ensure that you are abiding fully and unmistakably by the laws, by letting the laws be a challenge to dive deeper, hold your breath longer, stretch and tax and push yourself a little more to get those trophy bugs, fish, whatever . . .

I had a buddy I dove with recently who pulled a short, and was fined accordingly. Said buddy is also in the processing of applying for law enforcement. The things he said about how the Warden should have cut him some slack, blah blah blah, none of that helped anything or anyone, and all of it was unprincipled and unbecoming, especially of a person who wants to be an LEO. What's helpful, IMO, is to simply follow the law and avoid these kinds of things. I won't lie and say this has always been my perspective, but at some point, we are each obliged to realize what we're out there for: to participate in something that's so much greater and more significant than the mere satisfaction of our own personal desires, for the possession and consumption of finite goods. These things are in no way good in themselves, but are only good relative to the kinds of lives we lead.

In this time and place, what comes of the hunt is not really what is of value, at the end of the day. What is truly valuable, rather, is being a part of the hunt itself, the right and ability to enter into the great chain of life, to do so with appreciation and the utmost respect for the delicate, fragile ecosystems that we are privileged enough to have such a special kind of access to. To have our spirits renewed and rejuvenated by something noble and pure, wild and free. This is an opportunity that we are increasingly denied in our time, which makes it all the more precious for us to try and preserve it. Ultimately, that is to say, if we don't follow the laws and limit ourselves and are too easy on ourselves, we risk participating in unsustainable or unethical practices that can undermine the possibility of consumptive diving, both for ourselves and future generations. If that highfallutin' metaethical argument didn't do it for you, then let mere prudence be your motive. Practically speaking and at the end of the day, it is also always better to be hard on one's self, than to give a Warden or a Judge the least bit of cause or right to act.
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:37 AM   #63
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

So glad I don't have to deal with this kind of shit anymore.
Have a good winter fukas!!
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:43 AM   #64
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

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So glad I don't have to deal with this kind of shit anymore.
Have a good winter fukas!!
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Old 01-12-2016, 09:58 AM   #65
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

I was one of the divers out with Mario that night and his depiction of the events is pretty spot on. Our cards indicated a total of 15 bugs and the wardens didn't note any issues with how many we reported. Assuming our cards were accurate, we should have had 14 lobsters when we got back to the dock.

Mario, if you need me to write a statement, let me know.
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:30 AM   #66
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

carrasco, sorry that you are going through DFW hell. I wish you luck with your case.

Two years ago I was stopped by the DFW crew on their big boat, Swordfish. This was at Santa Cruz Island a few hours before the start of that lobster season. We had a long talk about measuring bugs. They made it real clear that if the gauge goes in, it's a short. They even mentioned that if the gauge holds the bug's weight, they were still going to call it a short. It's too bad they won't spell that out in the regs and we are left to the discretion of the officer.

Bottom line, you are in real subjective waters if you think about keeping a bug that's a cunt hair or two either way from being legal. It's just not worth the money and hassle of a citation.
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:33 AM   #67
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

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Originally Posted by agglenn741 View Post
I was one of the divers out with Mario that night and his depiction of the events is pretty spot on. Our cards indicated a total of 15 bugs and the wardens didn't note any issues with how many we reported. Assuming our cards were accurate, we should have had 14 lobsters when we got back to the dock.

Mario, if you need me to write a statement, let me know.
That would be very helpful and thank you for for stepping up and substantiating what I have written here. I am sending my email address to you via PM. I will reach out to the other divers for help with a short note as well. Junior has graciously offered to accompany me to court when I meet with the Judge and the Officers.
To everyone onboard that day and those who have dived with me in the past, be reminded that our sport is not a crime, that all rules are respected on my boat, and that I will not stop diving and enjoying sharing the stoke with all of you.
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:23 PM   #68
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

So many things to be said, but don't want to go on a rant. Just hope everything works out for you. A protocol should be followed when boarding and it doesn't appear it was or that there is a protocol set in place.
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:02 PM   #69
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

That's such a bummer, Mario! Sounds like some shenanigans. You have a good deal of evidence that you can bring to court; I imagine they won't raise much of a fuss. Good luck!
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:09 PM   #70
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

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{10. Lastly, be grateful that there are eager young guys willing to take on the thankless job of protecting our fish and wildlife from extinction...I know I am.}

I agree
You know they get paid, right?
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Old 01-12-2016, 04:39 PM   #71
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

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Originally Posted by jdeirmend View Post
.

However, it also sounds like your buddy took a clicker. If that's so, then he broke the law. Plain and Simple.
No doubt it was a Legal Bug, based on the DFG website on how to measure them. He didnt even get the chance to voice his position the way the process worked!

Notice in their pic that the gauge overhangs the carapace, and they state "Equal or Greater" is legal!
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:02 PM   #72
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

To me, this was a personal matter with Carrasco. Sorry that this was the case.

You know officer Enguyen..how? have you had an unpleasant encounter with him before?

Either way, Is all about common sense. The guys have 15 bugs and most of them are perfectly legal and 1 might be questionable depending on who you ask, if it is the first time..I would say that calls for common sense to dictate that the divers are not poaching. It wouldn't make sense to take the chance and get one short bug in the mix intentionally.
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:04 PM   #73
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

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Originally Posted by Scuba Fever View Post
No doubt it was a Legal Bug, based on the DFG website on how to measure them. He didnt even get the chance to voice his position the way the process worked!

Notice in their pic that the gauge overhangs the carapace, and they state "Equal or Greater" is legal!
Two objects (a gauge and a bug in this case) exactly the same size cannot fit in the same space , if the gauge fits over it is by definition smaller than the gauge . You can force it over a larger she'll but that's not the point here .

Try to fit a 1.000" rod in a 1.000 hole and you will see it just won't fit without a hammer


A bug that is exactly leagal will need the gauge forced on to fit
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:07 PM   #74
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba Fever View Post
No doubt it was a Legal Bug, based on the DFG website on how to measure them. He didnt even get the chance to voice his position the way the process worked!

Notice in their pic that the gauge overhangs the carapace, and they state "Equal or Greater" is legal!
This is gold right here. Make a big blowup of this and take it to court!! Clicker my ass. the way its written, if it even grazes the two points at once-its good!! Case fricken closed!
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:08 PM   #75
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Re: 2 DFW Officers, Dishonest or Incompetent?

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Originally Posted by phil herranen View Post
Two objects (a gauge and a bug in this case) exactly the same size cannot fit in the same space , if the gauge fits over it is by definition smaller than the gauge . You can force it over a larger she'll but that's not the point here .

Try to fit a 1.000" rod in a 1.000 hole and you will see it just won't fit without a hammer


A bug that is exactly leagal will need the gauge forced on to fit
Not how it is written Phil!! ( EQUAL to )
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