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Diving Safety, Accidents and Incidents Post here to discuss accidents, incidents, ideas, gear, or anything else to improve spearfishing safety. Memorials and condolences threads should be placed in that separate forum.

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Old 03-16-2014, 07:26 AM   #61
2fishin2
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

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Originally Posted by kehloken View Post
You actually need to leave this thread, you are a recreational scuba instructor, there is nothing that you can or will learn on this thread. This thread is of a real diver, not a recreational diver. Your post before this post have no credible information at all, Any Post after this post is going to be even more information that doesn't matter at all and is no use to this thread.
I will sum it up simply for you, when you talk about this guys diving in post 46, there is the only diving that was around that does condone in this diving, they have changed their diving but all the ones that learned to dive back then are still alive. And they are called Navy divers, all navy divers on this planet know what diving is about. Are not just stuck in the recreational scuba world.
Another statement that you made post 46 of how these Divers died compared to the rest of the population of organized diving groups, well you can just use Dan because you're a recreational diver, over 80% of the population that have died are recreational scuba divers. It's a simple fact not everyone can dive, the scuba diving agencies will manipulate with the scuba retailers that everyone can dive just to make money.

In other words there are going to be scuba deaths all the time it will never end.

Mike had a diving accident end of story.



As far as diving helium you cannot come to the surface immediately after you get a Deco obligation. Trimix divers have accidents also. I was launching my boat a little over a decade ago, the best tech instructor here in the Pacific Northwest which I did not know that at the time come walking out of the water at the boat launch and said call 911, I looked out to the water looked at him so okay pulled my phone out of my pocket. And told the 911 operator what he told me I was diving trimix down to 330 feet and I came all the way to the surface, I need to get to the chamber immediately my fiancé I'm going to marry this weekend is down there doing her Deco. He told me he was going to die, I kept him conscious until his ride came, within a few minutes of getting to the chamber he died.

The reason the Navy used air is because there divers can come to the surface and Clime into a chamber, now the Navy divers can Clime in to a chamber with Heliox and trimix but it has to be immediately, no pause whatsoever.

This thread and diving accident is not about recreational scuba diving, and anyone who post on here that has no sense about this kind of diving does not belong on this thread.
If your post was directed towards myself WTF are you talking about? Helium, Trimix what? Nobody said a word about those gases. Were the divers using them? This isnt technical diving anyways its recreational. Insulting and trying to divide "recreational" and "techincal" divers?? Come on dont stoop to this BS guy!

This thread is about learning and you come on here and flame away.

This wasnt a simple accident it was a fatality.

So Tony it seems there will not be much learning out of this thread due to people like this.

Intelligent people know the deal anyways. With that Im finished.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:31 AM   #62
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

Obviously you do not understand the trimix statement was not for you, and thank you for leaving the thread.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:45 AM   #63
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

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Obviously you do not understand the trimix statement was not for you, and thank you for leaving the thread.
I dont understand because the word trimix was never used in the mishap and has absolutely the square root of zero to do with this conversation. Also the words recreational and technical were never used. The dive was on air as said by Rok himself.

And all it takes is an open water diver to understand just how unsafe the dive and recovery attempt was. That is basic safe diving practices 101 that they are all given.

I think if you want to add to this conversation it might be better if you go back and read what we have of the mishap. Then make educated comments, not spouting off at the mouth like you did. Or are you saying everything they did was safe and acceptable?

Oh yeah I left but now Im back. Want to talk about and discuss what happened ok but insulting and talking shit is not what this thread is about.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:58 AM   #64
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

I was not going to ever post again on this thread, I was just going to read and see how it comes out, but I am tired of reading every insult that you have on everybody that post, and insulting the way a hell of a lot more people dive the way you don't Dive, than you will ever know.

And may I say you're the only one in this thread thats beating his chest.

So again I ask you please leave this thread and let the divers that understands this diving converse so that they could learn because you are not going to learn anything.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:06 AM   #65
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

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I was not going to ever post again on this thread, I was just going to read and see how it comes out, but I am tired of reading every insult that you have on everybody that post, and insulting the way I hell of a lot more people dive the way youdont Dive, than you will ever know.

And may I say you're the only one in this thread thats beating his chest.

So again I ask you please leave this thread and let the divers that understands this diving converse so that they could learn because you are not going to learn anything.
Best way to put this without pulling any punches you are an idiot! Insulting enough for you guy?

Insulting, is the way you are condoning the unsafe diving techniques of the mishap. You are insulting the education of every safe diver out there with your comments.

Here can you understand this simple communication:

An individual died because of their unsafe techniques. And the attempted rescuer was minutes away from his own death also. That's as fairly simple and straightforward as you can get.

WTF have you contributed to this thread? Nothing but spouting off at the mouth.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:23 AM   #66
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

Again your ignorance is showing true colors, you want to insult the rescuer as you are so close minded that thinking the second fatality would happen. Now I am not sure if they were using reels but if roc had a reel which usually has about 300 feet of line, I know roc can think as clear as I can when he got down there if he could not bring him up he simply take the shaft make a few wraps around the diver and head to the surface, at this point could either pull the diver up safely at a speed that would not injure them any worse or could lead them to the diver after they have sufficient Time to go retrieve the diver.
Again you do not have the intelligence to be on this thread you only want to think your own way of thinking.

So would you please leave the thread so divers that have the intelligence to go on on this thread and so that they can learn and not your way of how they don't know what they're doing.
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:54 AM   #67
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

This thread is really pretty sad. I tried to ignore the bullshit and hilarious statements made by you kehloken, but enough is enough.

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And may I say you're the only one in this thread thats beating his chest.
You need to look in the mirror my friend. Do you not remember your first post on this subject? About your laughable body recovery count? And then there was all the other funny bits in that post....

Your latest string of posts lead me to believe you really have no idea what you are talking about. But, I could be wrong - to clear up any misunderstandings, why don't you tell us all your name? That could definitely provide some credibility on these matters....

Cheers,
Mike
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:41 AM   #68
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

AUE I learned how to dive with a book that some navy divers gave me when they came and rented are boats to go out diving in Lake superior, at a young age they taught me how to dive, and since I knew the area and can run boats I was on the boat while they were diving. My sixth dive a diver died and ever since then I learned how not to die diving. back then not many people had big enough boats for the lake superior, nor wanted to take out divers.

I looked at your webpage, your trip reports started in 2000 I stop diving the deep wrecks in 96. I was done doing salvage diving, pulling up cars and getting bodies out of cars under the ice, snowmobilers that went down, shanty fishing fishermen that went bad on weak ice, ice skaters, planes and there were several of us that got called in to recover bodies it's as simple as that. A lot of the very good and smart guys have now passed away they were older than I and the younger ones are have now taken place.

I was in retirement stage in 96, amazing it can be when I sold out who would know that Michigan would crumble within a decade. I still have a cabin in Copper Harbor, my last dive was with my wife there on 911, a longtime friend who had a Yacht took us out diving, last cave diving with my wife was in the spring of 2001 in Europe. I will occasionally due a cave dive, as I love ocean cave diving in Europe.

Pretty much now I want free dive and travel to Spearfish. I now have no family whatsoever and I have no need to prove anything or have a business and try to make money on a website, or proclaim anything famous. And I do know identity theft is online.

And the other is I've dove Deep Air more than I've dove trimix, as we started diving trimix in the late 80s. Our usual diving on Deep Air was a commercial oxygen bottle on the boat with regulators, hung at 10 feet or Deco. Some victory dives halfway through victory Deco we had beer on a line keeping it cold and we shoot a beer and go finish Deco. That is about the wildest craziest thing that I did to be an unsafe diver. it took a few years and many dives watching my buddy before I tried it.

I wish you luck in your salvage business and that you've learned quite a bit. Getting Yacht's for insurance companies was the most profitable for me and proving whether it was sabotage or not.

But lets stay on topic hear of the diving accident in hand that happened.
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:47 AM   #69
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

That's all well and good. I just simply asked for a name....


Quote:
Originally Posted by kehloken View Post
AUE I learned how to dive with a book that some navy divers gave me when they came and rented are boats to go out diving in Lake superior, at a young age they taught me how to dive, and since I knew the area and can run boats I was on the boat while they were diving. My sixth dive a diver died and ever since then I learned how not to die diving. back then not many people had big enough boats for the lake superior, nor wanted to take out divers.

I looked at your webpage, your trip reports started in 2000 I stop diving the deep wrecks in 96. I was done doing salvage diving, pulling up cars and getting bodies out of cars under the ice, snowmobilers that went down, shanty fishing fishermen that went bad on weak ice, ice skaters, planes and there were several of us that got called in to recover bodies it's as simple as that. A lot of the very good and smart guys have now passed away they were older than I and the younger ones are have now taken place.

I was in retirement stage in 96, amazing it can be when I sold out who would know that Michigan would crumble within a decade. I still have a cabin in Copper Harbor, my last dive was with my wife there on 911, a longtime friend who had a Yacht took us out diving, last cave diving with my wife was in the spring of 2001 in Europe. I will occasionally due a cave dive, as I love ocean cave diving in Europe.

Pretty much now I want free dive and travel to Spearfish. I now have no family whatsoever and I have no need to prove anything or have a business and try to make money on a website, or proclaim anything famous. And I do know identity theft is online.

And the other is I've dove Deep Air more than I've dove trimix, as we started diving trimix in the late 80s. Our usual diving on Deep Air was a commercial oxygen bottle on the boat with regulators, hung at 10 feet or Deco. Some victory dives halfway through victory Deco we had beer on a line keeping it cold and we shoot a beer and go finish Deco. That is about the wildest craziest thing that I did to be an unsafe diver. it took a few years and many dives watching my buddy before I tried it.

I wish you luck in your salvage business and that you've learned quite a bit. Getting Yacht's for insurance companies was the most profitable for me and proving whether it was sabotage or not.

But lets stay on topic hear of the diving accident in hand that happened.
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:55 AM   #70
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

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...As far as diving helium you cannot come to the surface immediately after you get a Deco obligation. Trimix divers have accidents also. I was launching my boat a little over a decade ago, the best tech instructor here in the Pacific Northwest which I did not know that at the time come walking out of the water at the boat launch and said call 911, I looked out to the water looked at him so okay pulled my phone out of my pocket. And told the 911 operator what he told me I was diving trimix down to 330 feet and I came all the way to the surface, I need to get to the chamber immediately my fiancé I'm going to marry this weekend is down there doing her Deco. He told me he was going to die, I kept him conscious until his ride came, within a few minutes of getting to the chamber he died.....
This is the typical BS story told by Deep Air divers to validate why they dive deep air, rather than just admit their total lack of knowledge and abject fear of HE due to their complete ignorance. I bolded the proof of this story being a complete cluster f**k from the git-go. Being the "best tech instructor" means he was about 10 IQ points below the necessary IQ to use a broom.

Go ahead and dive air to 330 then blow off all your deco, let me know how that works for you.
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:07 AM   #71
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

I heard of Garrett but I never knew him, and the reason that he came to the surface is they determined that his new weasel undergarment plug is deflator valves, either he mentioned it on his ride in or or during the investigation. he simply could not dump air, when his fiancée got out of the water she said that his dry suit blew up and send him to the surface.

Obviously it's always the argument of tri-mix is better than Deep Air in today's diving. For me trimix was for a working diver, doing video of deep wrecks and cave diving. Deep Air Bounce Diving has its place, deep air diving for the means of spearfishing also has its place, just like Trimix diving does.

This diving accident just happens to be a Deep Air Dive.
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:13 AM   #72
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

Garrett did not ascend from 300 feet, he ascended from his deco stop at around 60 feet.

John - really??
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:20 AM   #73
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

Oh good You know about it, the fiancé was a little bit hysterical about it, I guess I think I remember a deco. I did not hear about the weasel till about maybe five years ago. but the sad part is he died, and supposedly because of the tri-mix just could not get to the chamber quick enough. but you must know him or the story better than I and there was nothing that we could do we just want to go diving.
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:31 AM   #74
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

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Oh good You know about it, the fiancé was a little bit hysterical about it, I guess I think I remember a deco. I did not hear about the weasel till about maybe five years ago. but the sad part is he died, and supposedly because of the tri-mix just could not get to the chamber quick enough. but you must know him or the story better than I and there was nothing that we could do we just want to go diving.
Mr. Doe:

The accident and the inability to get to the chamber had nothing to do specifically - or evenly remotely - with trimix. As John was trying to point out, inert gas is inert gas.

The hospital did not get him in a chamber promptly as they thought he was having a heart attack, and would not have been able to treat him once in the chamber. As it turns out there was no evidence of a heart attack, so poor decisions made by the medical staff helped seal his fate.

Cheers,
Mike
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:41 AM   #75
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Re: Educational Discussion of Michael Reed Accident/Incident

Thanks aue, with the speculation back then that's what went around on the water, as I really don't know any divers except for ones i meet on the water I don't affiliate to any dive shops or agencies. but damn that is a shame, Virginia Mason does have a new and better hyper chamber facility. was diving on a wreck in lake Washington few years back when I heard about the weasel from some divers, they did not reveal anything about the heart attack that I can remember.
The analogy speculation of the trimix I didn't quite get nor did bother me as I don't miss my deco obligation and my undergarments will never be able to clog my deflator valve, also I can just pull my zipper a little bit air is out quickly.
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