Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > General Topics (Non-regional) > General Spearfishing & Diving Discussion

General Spearfishing & Diving Discussion This is where you post to discuss general spearfishing topics that could apply to any region.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 04-10-2015, 10:14 AM   #1
Puerto Beach
Puerto Beach
 
Puerto Beach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: wisconsin and the Philippines
Posts: 42
Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

I have fine-tuned my gear and I am content with its performance in my specific fishing conditions within my skill level bandwidth. I don’t hunt much past 40 feet and one minute to a minute thirty is fairly representative of my limitations.

I am 64 years old, 6”5” and weight 242. That is the Indian I dive in.

Threads that begin on topic with what’s the best equipment usually get derailed by the interjection of the axiom of “It the Indian not the bow. So I acknowledge that their are Indian’s on the forum who could catch fish with a dinner fork and remain down under long enough to clean and eat them.

Baseline
I dive every day excluding typhoons and hospitalization’s interference. I live directly on the China Sea it is literally 40 meters from my doorstep.

The reef in front of my house is overfished and populated by only a few skiddish shy fish that run first and don’t look back. I am f the opinion that the fish of adequate size that are worthy of a shot on my dinner plate are the same ones who have grown to that size by being smart, easy to spook, and defensively evasive all their lives. Dumb fish die young and are too little to eat.

”It is not a sin to want to get a few extra feet out of a gun. Nor is it unfair to point out that physics underwater is matter of choice and consequences.

I have learned a great deal from many sincere exchanges on numerous topics but in the end after several years of spearfishing you have to become your own expert.

Lord knows there is no shortage of experts on the forums. Even the Supreme Court justices have differing opinions of the application of the law given the same case facts. So who is right…you have to be for yourself.

So it is no surprise that drama plays it’s way throughout the treads on the forums for such is human nature. To differ in opinion is the fuel that drives analysis and critical thinking. To make personal defaming remarks defines the trolls from the well-meaning souls

Individual preferences and personal philosophies abound of issues ranging from roller guns to super soft hybrid carbon fins.

Long in depth discussion get in to the Metaphysics of spearfishing in such detail as to require an engineering degree from MIT. I salute those who can truly follow the meandering logic thread as it makes it way through the post. I personally struggle just to be ignorant and drown in my own personal sea of stupidly once a formula’s get introduced into the argument.

Topics like “Which gun can shoot further?” or “Dive depths and bottom times” are subjected ridicule as being just dick measuring contests or worse.

“The time has come," the Walrus said,
“To talk of many things:
Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax—Of cabbages—and kings

I am sincerely interested in meaningful specifics. Tips and techniques you use while spearfishing in like conditions like my own, specifically reef fishing

Every thread finally gets around to suggesting that you shouldn’t be concerned with equipment just improve your technique. Well I have heard you so lay it on me.

Here is what I do now but is pure self-observation, tempered with trial and error.

Currently I swim the surface in open water just off the reef head, maybe 25 feet deep tops, for several hours and generally at random I swim down like a falling leaf to the bottom where I lie still and head down close my eyes and remain motionless for say one minute give or take a few seconds.

Then ever so slowly I will look around to see if any curious fish have come my way or happened to come by. My belief is that body language, quick movements, or starring at a fish are prime factors in diminishing my chances to get within striking distance. If I see a fish at a distance and try to close in on him 99 out of 100 time the transport to another dimension.

Some times I swim down to the bottom and then slowly swim up over the top of the reef. Pausing every few feet peering over the shelf I have reached and wait for an on coming fish to chance by. Once I expose myself the neighborhood clears out.

So how do you close in on a fish or get it to come to you? I suppose it depends on the species. Well anyway. Do flashers or rattles work? Well you get the idea. I am looking for constructive input as to how to improve or actually develop a technique.

Don’t get me wrong I do successfully catch fish it’s just that sometimes I am at a loss as to how to precede. So share your secrets. Give me insight talk technique to me.

I leave you with a challenge share you successful techniques in detail as to how you clean the reef.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3911.jpg
Views:	235
Size:	146.1 KB
ID:	216799  
Puerto Beach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2015, 01:03 PM   #2
slingshaft
Hunter, Gatherer
 
slingshaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,783
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

Nice Big Mac! You're smart, you are doing everything correct, Perhaps you could make a string flasher that is weighted on the bottom, and buoyant at the top.
You could carry this with you, and deploy it at the start of your aspetto.
"Once I expose myself the neighborhood clears out"
I did this once and the neighborhood cleared out and the cops came!
Cheers, Kerry.
slingshaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2015, 09:33 PM   #3
prospector
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 7
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

I think you have it all figured out. I'm 66' been doing this for close to 40 years and aspettto really works for reef fish. Like you say each species has its own way of reacting to,you, so they become predictable, makes it easier for you to decide how to deal with them. Happy hunting. Cheers.
prospector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2015, 11:33 PM   #4
2fishin2
Pacific Spearo
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 58
Posts: 3,312
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

My thoughts and observations, no drama:

Yes it is the indian and not the gun.

An overpowered big wooden gun is the most detrimental to success on reefs in particular. An underpowered, light, skinny gun is best. Shafts with minimal overhang are best. Take your gun target shooting. Know how it shoots. Tweak it to perfection. Pick a particualr gun, learn it and use it day to day. Dont swap guns. Have a primary and a backup.

All species of fish act different and live in different areas of the reef. Target your hunting to what species of fish you want to bring home. Learn what works in regards to attracting them. What works on one will not on another. There are fish which live in open water and sand vs on reef structures. Certain reef structures hold certain fish. Caverns, isolated coral humps hold fish where normal reef will not. Watch these patches for fish movement in and out of structure. Fish these hard.

With such a tall frame, you need to learn how to mask your body. If you are diving in a black wetsuit, change. Find a good digital reef camo.

Make every drop count. Look for places in the reef where you can hide. Dont lay on top of reef, lay beside the reef so it breaks up your outline. Use reef structures to your benefit.

Fish points, not bays. If in a bay, fish the natural underwater points. Dont fish main reef, fish isolated patches.

Learn tides and how they effect fish movement and location on reef and visibility. As a norm, tides will push fish up on reef, low tides take them off reef. All reefs are different learn what works on yours. Learn what tide is best. Generally a very strong tide and very weak tidal change has a detrimental effect. Moderate tides are best. Learn what time in the tidal cycle will trigger fish movements in your area. General the change from with high to low or low to hide will be most effective. Understand that means you have a couple hours a day that are really effective and are the sweet times. Ive seen reefs devoid at fish during bad tide situation and same reef become full of fish within a 30min time period when tidal change occurs. If there is one important thing to learn, its tidal changes and the science behind them.

Wind is also important. A onshore wind can be awesome where an offshore will, suck. Windchop stirs water, brings baitfish, bringing predators.

Learn to recognize temp and water color changes and how that effects fish. Dirty, warmer , plankton rich water will have baitfish concentrated. It might be only one spot on a long reef stretch that holds fish where the rest of reef will have no fish.

Learn what specific locations on your reef has fish. Dont spend time on sections of reef that hold no fish and are unproductive.

High tide with a moderate tidal change that falls in the evening is the best time to be in water. Check a tidal chart and determine what day that is. Maximize your opportunities to take fish with chart and research. Its much more than just getting in and shooting fish. There is science behind it all.

Learn what noises attract and which scare. Low frequency grunts and gentle clicks of a swivel on a wood, carbon gun are great fish attractors. Band flutter will send fish running away. Be careful of the grunts as they will also attract sharks.

Floatlines scare reef fish. If you are in an area where boat traffic is not an issue, dont use one use a reel only. If you must use one, use a ghost leader of a 5-8 meter length if 800# or so clear mono between gun and floatline.

Rub, bang rocks/coral together, throw sand it all works.

Hand gestures like waving or flashing works and is a great trick. Tie a silver spoon to your front line guide. Keep the line very short. Rotate your gun to flash the spoon or even your flopper at the fish.

Even when you see no fish, take frequent observation drops where you dont actually lay but just scan for fish. Certain species of fish will follow you outside of your visual and come charging in on those drops.

When in high potentail areas or conditions, swim and look slowly take your time. Otherwise in other areas, swim through them. Maximize potential!

Weigh yourself heavier in shallow surge prone waters vs lighter in deeper water. Keep your fins on the reef, not floating when laying. Make a conscience effort to know what all parts of your body is doing at all times on bottom. It will relax you and give you better bottom times.

As soon as you get in the water, make a couple drops to burp your suit. Do not let your first drop be one to shoot a fish. The suit fart will scare them.

Learn how certain food effect your body functions. For me any dairy product to include pizza and beef are no goes a day before dive. They cause me gas and poops. Know that the sounds your body makes scares fish. Eat foods that agree with your body.

Turn off any alarm your watch might have. Do not rely on a watch for depth or bottom time. Learn your body. On almost every dive I play a mental challenge with myself. I guess my depth and bottom time while on bottom before I start my ascent. Im to a point in my diving career that Im extremely close to my guesses actually to within a meter or few seconds.

Diving is mental, learning fish and environmental is a science.

Take what you need for a fresh dinner not for the freezer. If you take a couple more, give away to someone in need.

Clean your fish in the ocean. Saves on the mess and after along day diving, saves you from that unpleasant chore. I at least gut every fish immediately after shot before I put on kui. Bbq fish with scales on.

Use a solunar table and see if it works in your area. Check it everyday and see if the best times correspond to your experiences. Dont be afraid to document you data.

You can take any of these tips and apply anywhere in the world and be successful.

Recognize that all the hot air and banter that takes place on SB is between people who share a love and passion for the same sport. There's alot to be said for that.

I think I spilled enough for today.

Last edited by 2fishin2; 04-10-2015 at 11:50 PM.
2fishin2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 01:01 AM   #5
2fishin2
Pacific Spearo
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 58
Posts: 3,312
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

173 views and Im the only person who has any tricks?
2fishin2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 01:22 AM   #6
Danyanimal
Registered User
 
Danyanimal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 201
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fishin2 View Post
173 views and Im the only person who has any tricks?
Too much of a noobie to feel comfortable giving advice. But those tricks you listed are great! Thanks for the knowledge, I'll give some of those tricks a try next time I'm in the water.
Danyanimal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 02:24 AM   #7
2fishin2
Pacific Spearo
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 58
Posts: 3,312
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

Lol I cant tell you how many tricks I have learned from a noobie.
2fishin2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 08:37 AM   #8
paolo
Registered User
 
paolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Switzerland, Europe
Posts: 197
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fishin2 View Post
173 views and Im the only person who has any tricks?
Well, it`s not like you left very much open to write on, lol

Something I have learned this past summer in spain: Look where no one else is looking! That includes where the tourists swim thruout the day in very, and i mean very shallow water. on the beach i dove there were some boulders on the beach to break the waves, which now are semi-surrounded by water. Whole families would swim around there during the day, splash around and have fun. Well, i took my fins and mask and checked it out once, and was surprised to see the biggest fish (like 15 inches, which is pretty decent for the mediterranean, not to mention so cose to shore) i`ve seen in that area. And most of the nice fish were actually in knee deep water around those boulders. So the next day i got up early and went there at the crack of down. Took my flashlight with me and started checking out the little caves between those boulders. I almost crapped my wetsuit when i saw a about 2` fish stick his head out of one of those caves. Unfortunately, of course, he was too quick for me, but i saw many other fish in those caves and was able to shoot the nicest fish right there, after I had hunted the "much nicer" and deeper parts of the rocky ledges far away from all the tourism and commotion (and closer to the other spearos :-P

The other important thing is to not be aggressive. Any fish being hunted will turn around and swim away (besides maybe big super bold/dumb fish). So I would rather swim away from them then swim towards them (I often fail at doing this).

If the area allows it, so if there aren`t too many sharks around, shoot one fish and keep him either on the line of in your hand in front of you. Nothing soothes a fish`s mind like a nice fish swimming around there. I used this trick in hawaii once (when vis was good and i knew there weren`t any sharks close by) and I was absolutely stunned by how fish turned around and came streight at me as soon as i hit the bottom and wiggled that nice parrotfish around.

I heard, but have never tried it, that a plastic bottle will sound like a school of baitfish....

ALWAYS be ready! That big fish will be right under your face.

Ahhh, and of course, what i have learned the past couple years is, if you want to shoot a truly nice fish, TURN THE CAMERA OFF! The moment I turn my camera off, the batteries die, the sd card is full, the fish of a lifetime will show up and I will shoot it. If the camera is rolling, I will either not see a fish like that, it will be too far, or, and this is my favorite one, I will miss the easiest shot one can take. So, turn it off, leave it at home, make sure the batteries are dead, or anything like that.

Well, i think that`s about all the advice I can give you.
Good luck and keep havin fun

-Paolo
paolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 08:51 AM   #9
Puerto Beach
Puerto Beach
 
Puerto Beach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: wisconsin and the Philippines
Posts: 42
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fishin2 View Post
173 views and Im the only person who has any tricks?
Thank you for taking the time and effort to respond. I appreciate it. I am also digesting and integrating some of your excellent insights.

Keep it coming folks he's right you have a wealth of knowledge let it out.
Puerto Beach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 09:29 AM   #10
bleu
Official Sponsor
 
bleu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 410
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

One thing to try if sharks aren't to bad in the area is a plastic bottle. My buddy used to leave one with rock in it on his favorite spot. He would drop down and hide in the reef and give it a shake. Sticking your spear into a hole and rattling it can help too. They seem to be attracted to the commotion. Not sure any of this will be helpful in your area of the world.
bleu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 02:57 AM   #11
Puerto Beach
Puerto Beach
 
Puerto Beach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: wisconsin and the Philippines
Posts: 42
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleu View Post
One thing to try if sharks aren't to bad in the area is a plastic bottle. My buddy used to leave one with rock in it on his favorite spot. He would drop down and hide in the reef and give it a shake. Sticking your spear into a hole and rattling it can help too. They seem to be attracted to the commotion. Not sure any of this will be helpful in your area of the world.
Sharks are few and far between. I did just get a fish rattle a few day ago and am excited to experiment with it. Focusing on one species is difficult because I swim for hours sometime and see no fish. When I do decide to chase Spanish Mackerels I swim of the head of the reef about a ½ mile off reef in the sandy bottom and drop randomly to lie in wait. I have caught three this past year and consider that a victory.

I have not tried chumming. Are trigger fish ok to try to use as chum there are a few of those on the reef and would not be too hard to get.

People have asked what kind of fish do I get so I have attached a few picture on some lucky days as an example.

Fisf2fish ye gods man lot of good stuff there I am sifting thru it ty for taking the time to put it down.

I do a have a most excellent gun and I can shoot it straight
Check out my report on that
link
http://www.spearboard.com/showthread...&highlight=gun
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1197.jpg
Views:	185
Size:	150.5 KB
ID:	216878   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0588.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	149.4 KB
ID:	216879   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN1716.jpg
Views:	179
Size:	148.8 KB
ID:	216880  
Puerto Beach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 03:13 AM   #12
2fishin2
Pacific Spearo
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 58
Posts: 3,312
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

Instead of rattle if you are using a reel just lightly tap your swivel on the gun. Does exactly the same. Tap rocks or coral together. Scratch the reef or sand with rock. All of it works. The trick is do it just enough to get the fish attention then stop. All of those fish except chubs are good. Mangrove jacks and rabbitfish excellent eating. Chumming probably wouldnt be any good in your area. Triggerfish no good chum, too hard to cut up in the water. Parrots make good chum if you want to try. General reef fishing chum is not needed. Chum is good for macks and jobfish and openwater not so much reef.
2fishin2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 09:31 AM   #13
AlexbeeintheUK
Registered User
 
AlexbeeintheUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 505
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

LOADS of great information so far - will be taking a plastic bottle on my next dive to see what happens

The technique I want to discuss is gun position - mostly for mid water fish. When the fish are being skittish and keeping their distance (or specific fish that commonly do this like mackerels, parrotfish etc.) think about how you are moving around with your gun.
Fish will judge your threat level first (i believe) by distance, if you dive with your gun extended then they will use the muzzle (or flopper) as the point of reference for the distance between you both (of course other factors like body language, speed and eye contact are worth thinking about) and keep their chosen distance from that point. Let's say a fish has decided he is going to keep 20ft away from the nearest point of you (muzzle) then making a shot with most size guns will be hit-or-miss especially when it comes to penetration at max range. If you now keep your gun tucked in to your body with the muzzle/spear tip about a foot in front of you and that same fish stays 20ft away, in the last moment you can extend your gun/arm and pull the trigger in one smooth motion. As you extend your arm & gun you have just closed the gap by around 3-5ft (depending on size) and now your shot may well be within killing range.
Think 'Soldier at arms' - sorry for the crappy example I just found on google, hope you get the idea.
The above technique is found in the early pages of Terry Maas book on bluewater hunting for those wanting something more in depth.

Everyone has their own style of shooting and I don't like aiming at my target for more than a couple seconds. I try to work on an instinctive 'point and shoot' and find if I spend more than a few seconds lining up a shot, I inevitably miss.
When I have spent time on foam targets I do the same, I look away from the target with my gun tucked under my chest/by my side, turn, see the target and extend the gun out pulling the trigger once my arm is fully extended with a slight bend in the elbow. For me, I am far more accurate with this type of shooting and my stone shot to regular shot ratio has improved dramatically in the last year alone.

However, some people like to attach shiny stuff to their muzzles and wave it around with the gun extended to draw the fish in which I am sure works and has a time and place.
I agree with the original post that whilst one technique may work for me, it may not work for you.
AlexbeeintheUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 05:48 PM   #14
Puerto Beach
Puerto Beach
 
Puerto Beach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: wisconsin and the Philippines
Posts: 42
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexbeeintheUK View Post
LOADS of great information so far - will be taking a plastic bottle on my next dive to see what happens

The technique I want to discuss is gun position - mostly for mid water fish. When the fish are being skittish and keeping their distance (or specific fish that commonly do this like mackerels, parrotfish etc.) think about how you are moving around with your gun.
Fish will judge your threat level first (i believe) by distance, if you dive with your gun extended then they will use the muzzle (or flopper) as the point of reference for the distance between you both (of course other factors like body language, speed and eye contact are worth thinking about) and keep their chosen distance from that point. Let's say a fish has decided he is going to keep 20ft away from the nearest point of you (muzzle) then making a shot with most size guns will be hit-or-miss especially when it comes to penetration at max range. If you now keep your gun tucked in to your body with the muzzle/spear tip about a foot in front of you and that same fish stays 20ft away, in the last moment you can extend your gun/arm and pull the trigger in one smooth motion. As you extend your arm & gun you have just closed the gap by around 3-5ft (depending on size) and now your shot may well be within killing range.
Think 'Soldier at arms' - sorry for the crappy example I just found on google, hope you get the idea.
The above technique is found in the early pages of Terry Maas book on bluewater hunting for those wanting something more in depth.

Everyone has their own style of shooting and I don't like aiming at my target for more than a couple seconds. I try to work on an instinctive 'point and shoot' and find if I spend more than a few seconds lining up a shot, I inevitably miss.
When I have spent time on foam targets I do the same, I look away from the target with my gun tucked under my chest/by my side, turn, see the target and extend the gun out pulling the trigger once my arm is fully extended with a slight bend in the elbow. For me, I am far more accurate with this type of shooting and my stone shot to regular shot ratio has improved dramatically in the last year alone.

However, some people like to attach shiny stuff to their muzzles and wave it around with the gun extended to draw the fish in which I am sure works and has a time and place.
I agree with the original post that whilst one technique may work for me, it may not work for you.
Interesting Ido swim with my gun extended in front of me however when turning a corner or coming around a reef obstruction I pull it back even with me and hold it close for I do realize it foretells my presence in advance of my actual physical appearance. I will retract it when diving down when I lie on the bottom I lay it flat on the bottom also so I don't think they can make out it is an advanced guard. I lie face down on the sea bed and put my hand over the back of my head trying to remain motionless. After a minute or so I look ever so slowly around so as to not spook a curious arrival. I have been spooked a few time when looking up and a fish is right in my face however lol.

I find if I put my head up to look around it gives away my position and even if I see a fish it is only to watch him depart the area because I tipped off my presence.Maybe I take too long to aim but the fish duck and dart and waiting for the right profile is important for me to strike cleanly

Good advise ty incorporated in my data bank and will manifest itself in practice
Puerto Beach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 08:16 PM   #15
2fishin2
Pacific Spearo
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 58
Posts: 3,312
Re: Technique TELL ME (Your Success Secrets)

Only fish in pacific where midwater swimming is done are macks, dogtooth and occasional GT. The midgun extension is for midwater free swimming fish only. The majority of pacific reef fishing spearing is done laying on the bottom. I always have my gun extended while on bottom. I orientate myself towards where the fish come from. Fish as a norm, will come towards where you are pointing. Depending on the species, thats where the spoon or flopper tip flashing comes into play. Its not a big flashing your muzzle but nothing more than a flick of wrist or two. Some species are extremely skiddish much so that if you look at them they will not come close enough for a shot. Other than when those fish are present, you must be looking to moment you arrive on bottom. If you wait for a minute you are missing out on many fish. When you hit bottom, fish will make one close run in towards you and then after that their passes wil get further and further away with each pass. If you wait before looking, imagine how many fish have left?
2fishin2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:04 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com