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Diving Safety, Accidents and Incidents Post here to discuss accidents, incidents, ideas, gear, or anything else to improve spearfishing safety. Memorials and condolences threads should be placed in that separate forum.

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Old 11-19-2010, 11:40 AM   #46
inletsurf
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

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Another friend of mine has suggested some kind of EPIRB for Divers.. are there any Depth proof EPIRBS out there? Used properly, this would have saved another friend of mine a 12 mile overnight swim thorugh a Deep, currented, Sharky, Channel last year.. and also would have probably allowed us to find my friend who dissapeared last week.
There are several people who manufacture brass or stainless canisters for small spot epirbs which seem to work very well.
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:12 PM   #47
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

Behslayer, so sorry for the loss of your friend.
FWIW I hang from my float some times offshore from a adjustable downrigger
clip which is secured to a thin detachable rubber belt with another downrigger clip for buckle.

If I black out or am lost at sea my family has a better chance of recovering my body for cremation and return to Mother Ocean.

Sincerely Don
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Old 11-25-2010, 11:48 AM   #48
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

Did I miss something? Behslayer, you said a "downcurrent" took your buddy, with enough force to make SCUBA divers, who wear BC's, go up hand over hand in the cliff face, no buddy system or freedive vest would help against that...would it not be easier to learn how to understand and avoid these so-called "downcurrents" you mentioned in post 14 ?
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Old 11-25-2010, 01:10 PM   #49
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

Yes it would, if you inflated the freedive vest, zeagle ascent or whatever----you would still be pulled by the downcurrent. However when the downcurrent stops, you will be positively buoyant with the vest full and even if you're passed out, it will still take you to the surface.
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Old 11-25-2010, 05:32 PM   #50
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

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Yes it would, if you inflated the freedive vest, zeagle ascent or whatever----you would still be pulled by the downcurrent. However when the downcurrent stops, you will be positively buoyant with the vest full and even if you're passed out, it will still take you to the surface.
I would think, too, if you could relax completely and trust the vest and go into total static, you could conserve enough air to make it to the surface. Wonder how long the downcurrent lasts for???

Rick
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:00 PM   #51
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

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I would think, too, if you could relax completely and trust the vest and go into total static, you could conserve enough air to make it to the surface. Wonder how long the downcurrent lasts for???

Rick
Maybe, but other than post 14, Behslayer has been silent about the "downcurrents", choosing just to focus on the freedive vest, even thou he alluded to some type of "deep gouge" in the cliff wall. Did this "deep gouge" suck his buddy into a cave? No freedive vest that I know off would vertically get you out of that...If his report on post 14 is true, then we should discuss how to avoid this type of situation, I asked about this in post 18, but he only decided to ignore the problem and talk about the freedive vest. Behslayer, was there really a "deep gouge"? was your buddy sucked vertically into it? Could you explain the "downcurrent" that lasted for a few minutes at a time?
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:31 PM   #52
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

Man if you are in a cave that grab onto your suit anyways it is not easy to get out if you are stuck.
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:58 PM   #53
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

Hi Irie, From what the Scuba Recovery team said, there was a strong and non constant down current in that spot, there was some contour in the wall there like a crack or indent. These kind of down currents are common in place where Deep water and current meet reef or island, and this entire area is often full of whirlpools and eddies. It's exactly these conditions which make it dangerous, and also, fishy.. I agree with you that one of the lessons to be learned here and something that the reader should come away with is to keep your eyes open for Down Currents and to respect them. Sometimes what you see is only the tip of the iceberg.. I've heard reports of Scuba divers in this area having there entire group of divers caught in surface whirlpools which gave them the merry go round and then sucked them down to 75ft before spitting them out. I've also had a few occasions where I was holding onto my big float swimming my butt off to avoid being toilet bowled while all my bungee lines were stretched out 75ft below me. It's a valid point you are bringing up here. Avoiding obvious Down Currents is definitely adding safety and helping to prevent SWB and Drowning in freedive spearfishing. Some kind of Floatation, ie a vest, or a large buoy is a great help once you are in one of these Down Currents. It's important to keep yourself from getting twisted up in the ropes. In the end, having either a Vest or being attached to your float is going to help your buddies find you once you have surfaced in a worst case scenario.
I've encountered two kinds of Down Currents situations. One is an underwater Down Current that is not really discernable from the surface other than possibly some bubbles or angles of swimming baitfish, the other are Surface showing whirlpools.. My own experience for dealing with an underwater Down Current is that you should act fast. Sometimes it's disorienting, but if you think you are being pulled downwards, don't wait. Get out of there, start upward immediately, because sometimes you could be just on the edge of one of these underwater rivers and allow yourself to get pulled into a progressively stronger current by not acting quickly. As far as Surface showing Whirlpools. I try to swim out of them first. Put your gun/floatline over your shoulder and swim freestyle. Usually you can swim out of the side of one of these, but sometimes, you get caught in the spin.. in this case, be really careful of the ropes. Get your buoy into your hands. Not 15ft away, but into your hands. Get on the buoy and start swimming sideways to try to get free. I've never had the full cycle experience. The only times I've come close, it was from my own foolhardiness, jumping into currents that I knew looked severe.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:12 PM   #54
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

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Hi Irie, From what the Scuba Recovery team said, there was a strong and non constant down current in that spot, there was some contour in the wall there like a crack or indent. These kind of down currents are common in place where Deep water and current meet reef or island, and this entire area is often full of whirlpools and eddies. It's exactly these conditions which make it dangerous, and also, fishy.. I agree with you that one of the lessons to be learned here and something that the reader should come away with is to keep your eyes open for Down Currents and to respect them. Sometimes what you see is only the tip of the iceberg.. I've heard reports of Scuba divers in this area having there entire group of divers caught in surface whirlpools which gave them the merry go round and then sucked them down to 75ft before spitting them out. I've also had a few occasions where I was holding onto my big float swimming my butt off to avoid being toilet bowled while all my bungee lines were stretched out 75ft below me. It's a valid point you are bringing up here. Avoiding obvious Down Currents is definitely adding safety and helping to prevent SWB and Drowning in freedive spearfishing. Some kind of Floatation, ie a vest, or a large buoy is a great help once you are in one of these Down Currents. It's important to keep yourself from getting twisted up in the ropes. In the end, having either a Vest or being attached to your float is going to help your buddies find you once you have surfaced in a worst case scenario.
I've encountered two kinds of Down Currents situations. One is an underwater Down Current that is not really discernable from the surface other than possibly some bubbles or angles of swimming baitfish, the other are Surface showing whirlpools.. My own experience for dealing with an underwater Down Current is that you should act fast. Sometimes it's disorienting, but if you think you are being pulled downwards, don't wait. Get out of there, start upward immediately, because sometimes you could be just on the edge of one of these underwater rivers and allow yourself to get pulled into a progressively stronger current by not acting quickly. As far as Surface showing Whirlpools. I try to swim out of them first. Put your gun/floatline over your shoulder and swim freestyle. Usually you can swim out of the side of one of these, but sometimes, you get caught in the spin.. in this case, be really careful of the ropes. Get your buoy into your hands. Not 15ft away, but into your hands. Get on the buoy and start swimming sideways to try to get free. I've never had the full cycle experience. The only times I've come close, it was from my own foolhardiness, jumping into currents that I knew looked severe.
Thank you Behslayer. That is some extremely good info. I myself have never encountered this type of current, but now I will definately be on the watch. I will pass this information to my dive buddies, both in Miami and in Puerto Rico, and I will discuss it with my spearfishing club (South Florida Freedivers). Just being aware of such things can really save a life, so I really apreciate that you took your time to explain, especially the part of grabbing the bouy in your hands, not 15 feet away, seems that in itself is a life saver right there. Thank you and take care.
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Old 11-26-2010, 05:46 AM   #55
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

Hi Irie,
These kind of currents occur a lot over here where we have some islands in the middle of extremely deep channels. There's huge forces at play.
Inlet Surf,
Do those cannisters and small spot Epirbs work under water? What is a small spot Epirb? Is it like a marine Avalanche Beacon? What range would it have under water? Above Water? Any info is appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 11-26-2010, 06:52 AM   #56
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

There are big downcurrents in places where I dive. I've been caught in them freediving and scuba diving and have had to crawl up walls when caught in the scuba mode. It is an eye-opening experience. Like Jon said they happen where you have pinacles and walls near strong current. They are scary and nothing to gamble with. There is no way inflating a BC or a freedive vest would ever get you out of some of them in fact most of them. Problem with some of them is they will sneak up on you and you will already be deep. Some of them are very obvious and some of them not and those are the ones that are trouble.
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Old 03-17-2011, 04:41 AM   #57
Phil K
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Re: SWB Enough is Enough

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I'm new on this forum. How's this for a cheap safety device: a belt that releases a couple of weights during a SWB? No need to deal with a canister or vest. Would need to be creative about weight distribution so you are face up afterward... maybe keep some weight on the lower back?

Also, re: downcurrents and drowning, would you consider carrying a Spareair? Those few breaths could save your life...
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