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Old 10-23-2009, 09:40 AM   #1
Summerland Key
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Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

There has been a proposal made to the Gulf council to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf. Everyone should be aware of this issue and follow it closely.

This would certainly be a step backwards in fishery management. It is my understanding that with the new ITQ system, and the concern over turtle bycatch with longlines, some on the Council, and certain enviornmental groups are considering this porposal seriously. Don
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:19 AM   #2
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

The results of this will show without question if fishery management issues are based on what's good for the fishery or political agenda.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:00 PM   #3
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Exclamation Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

If anyone has ever used a fish trap they know this is a HORRIBLE idea...I would notify PETA and see if they would help. lol. It is THAT bad of an idea.
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Old 10-23-2009, 05:03 PM   #4
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summerland Key View Post
There has been a proposal made to the Gulf council to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf. Everyone should be aware of this issue and follow it closely.

This would certainly be a step backwards in fishery management. It is my understanding that with the new ITQ system, and the concern over turtle bycatch with longlines, some on the Council, and certain enviornmental groups are considering this porposal seriously. Don

Sounds like something that we all need to keep our eyes on.
Lets hope that the Council has enough sense to keep this stuff out of our waters.
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Old 10-23-2009, 05:25 PM   #5
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

Rich T
OK, this is somethng we both agree on. I talked with the person that proposed this today (Bob Spaeth). I have a lot of respect for Bob, and even more since he contacted me to let me know about his proposal. However, I disagree with him on this. We have been through all this before and fish trapping is just a bad method of fishing.
I do have a response from the Gulf Council Staff, which I can post later, when my wife gets home. I can't figure out how to cut and paste the e-mail! Don
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Old 10-24-2009, 05:52 AM   #6
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

Below is the response I received from the Glf Cuncil staff about the fish trap issue. So, there will be public scoping meetings at some point that you all should attend. Don

Don,

The Council’s motion was to add consideration of fish traps as an allowable gear to the scoping document that is in preparation for Reef Fish Amendment 32 (gag rebuilding plan and gag/red grouper ACL adjustments). Part of the rationale for the motion was to provide alternatives for longline fishermen who are being displaced by the new longline restrictions and endorsement. We are a long way from actually reauthorizing the use of fish trap, if it happens at all.

Steven Atran
Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council
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Old 10-24-2009, 06:40 AM   #7
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

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Originally Posted by Summerland Key View Post
Below is the response I received from the Glf Cuncil staff about the fish trap issue. So, there will be public scoping meetings at some point that you all should attend. Don

Don,

The Council’s motion was to add consideration of fish traps as an allowable gear to the scoping document that is in preparation for Reef Fish Amendment 32 (gag rebuilding plan and gag/red grouper ACL adjustments). Part of the rationale for the motion was to provide alternatives for longline fishermen who are being displaced by the new longline restrictions and endorsement. We are a long way from actually reauthorizing the use of fish trap, if it happens at all.

Steven Atran
Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council
Don, just to put my .02 in here. After having a lot of personal experience with what fish traps have done to fish stocks and the reef over the past 35 years, it is inconceivable that anyone sitting on the GMFMC would even think about allowing this type of gear to be used again, even on a limited basis. Even if I had the thought cross my mind, as Mr. Atran has said, I would never let it cross my lips. to be repeated in public. If I could only pick one thing to be against, it would be any use of fish traps, ever. Enough said.
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:00 AM   #8
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

can some one describe how fish trapping works, why its so bad....I dont get it.
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Old 10-24-2009, 11:46 AM   #9
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

OK, all sides of our usual sparring: Truce.

We all must work together on this......


Fish traps are the worst possible gear in any area of tropical and sub-tropical bottom. They catch indescriminately, need no bait and when lost catch and kill for years - juveniles, ornamentals, protected species - everything. Fish winched up from depth are blown to hell and most will not survive. Trappers tried every kind of deceit, bullshit trap modification proposals, "bad over there but not bad here" crap, all disproven. Fish traps ranging from those made in Haiti of wicker to modern vinyl coated wire over re-bar have destroyed the fish stocks of the Caribbean, Bermuda and to a good extent much of the Bahamas (last in line). Notice all the restrictions on Nassau grouper in the Bahamas - the stocks destroyed when large scale modern fish trapping operations were allowed into the islands. I have a lot of old video we used during the original fish trap fight that absolutely makes the case. We're in the process of digging it up now.

There is a school of thought that allowing the fish traps will be a good avenue to help out the longliners who are facing new restrictions. Apparently they are being pushed out to 30 fathoms in part in response to all of the turtles their lines kill. Some environmental groups may support this idea out of ignorance and/or short memories. Allowing fish trps in an effort to reduce the use of longlines is like treating smallpox with anthrax.

The longliners have been hiding their turtle kill for a long time, meaning that in pursuit of a living they have already killed loads of turtles. They know that with the expansion of the NMFS observer program they will be found out completely and in the end the longlines will be banned. So now they want to be rewarded by being allowed to use fish traps in their place. THis is no equitable trade. If these guys want to continue fishing then they'd better go to sustainable practices - hook and line/spearfishing. If that doesn't work for them then they are S.O.L. The resource cannot handle the pressure they want to bring to bear.

WE all have to work together to kill this proposal before it gains any traction. I'm willing to share my data with all of you.

On another note: Sorry I still haven't done the lemon shark write up. Of necessity it'll be shorter than I envisioned simply because I'm strapped for time right now. I'll get it to you. Promise! Bill

Last edited by Biminibill; 10-24-2009 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 10-24-2009, 12:31 PM   #10
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

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Originally Posted by Biminibill View Post
OK, all sides of our usual sparring: Truce.

We all must work together on this......


Fish traps are the worst possible gear in any area of tropical and sub-tropical bottom. They catch indescriminately, need no bait and when lost catch and kill for years - juveniles, ornamentals, protected species - everything. Fish winched up from depth are blown to hell and most will not survive. Trappers tried every kind of deceit, bullshit trap modification proposals, "bad over there but not bad here" crap, all disproven. Fish traps ranging from those made in Haiti of wicker to modern vinyl coated wire over re-bar have destroyed the fish stocks of the Caribbean, Bermuda and to a good extent much of the Bahamas (last in line). Notice all the restrictions on Nassau grouper in the Bahamas - the stocks destroyed when large scale modern fish trapping operations were allowed into the islands. I have a lot of old video we used during the original fish trap fight that absolutely makes the case. We're in the process of digging it up now.

There is a school of thought that allowing the fish traps will be a good avenue to help out the longliners who are facing new restrictions. Apparently they are being pushed out to 30 fathoms in part in response to all of the turtles their lines kill. Some environmental groups may support this idea out of ignorance and/or short memories. Allowing fish trps in an effort to reduce the use of longlines is like treating smallpox with anthrax.

The longliners have been hiding their turtle kill for a long time, meaning that in pursuit of a living they have already killed loads of turtles. They know that with the expansion of the NMFS observer program they will be found out completely and in the end the longlines will be banned. So now they want to be rewarded by being allowed to use fish traps in their place. THis is no equitable trade. If these guys want to continue fishing then they'd better go to sustainable practices - hook and line/spearfishing. If that doesn't work for them then they are S.O.L. The resource cannot handle the pressure they want to bring to bear.

WE all have to work together to kill this proposal before it gains any traction. I'm willing to share my data with all of you.

On another note: Sorry I still haven't done the lemon shark write up. Of necessity it'll be shorter than I envisioned simply because I'm strapped for time right now. I'll get it to you. Promise! Bill
That fairly well sums it up. Don
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Old 10-24-2009, 04:53 PM   #11
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

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Originally Posted by njspearo View Post
can some one describe how fish trapping works, why its so bad....I dont get it.
Its extremely effective...fish fill a big trap in ONE night...then if that trap is left out the fish die creating more bait and more fish get stuck in there...its like a modern day tar pit.
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Old 10-24-2009, 05:21 PM   #12
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

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Its extremely effective...fish fill a big trap in ONE night...then if that trap is left out the fish die creating more bait and more fish get stuck in there...its like a modern day tar pit.
Good Call.....and they don't even NEED the bait...They go in looking for cover. I've seen lost traps with the bottom of the trap completely covered in fish bones.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:10 PM   #13
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

Holy shit......Bill and I agree on something....the world will be ending soon.

Fish traps are bad. The grouper and hog stocks over here have been steadily coming back since their ban. Letting them back anywhere would be a horrible idea.
See, us commercial guys aren't all reef raping savages.
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:24 PM   #14
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

Certain things make us all allies - Alien Invasion, natural disasters like hurricanes, floods, etc......and fish traps.

We have to beat the holy living crap out of them so bad this time that they will never bring it up again. The big commercial interest ass kissing Gulf Council didn't ban the traps right away last time. Instead they gave the trappers a "10 year phase out". Some phase out.....many trappers put together bigger boats and put out more gear, much of it untagged and in excess of what they were allowed. The final phase out was just two years ago. Now these clowns want it back and the Gulf Council, instead of telling them "No F Way", says "yeah, we'll look at it." A point of interest: The "phase out" still only allowed traps east of Cape San Blas and was passed by majority vote of THE OTHER GULF STATES - NOT FLORIDA. The Florida representatives voted to ban traps outright but the majority was happy to leave Florida saddled with that gear for another ten years since it would be only off Florida. We need to make sure that this doesn't happen again. Divers and spearfishers from the entire Gulf States region and as well anyone else interested should get involved this time. We cannot afford to let that gear back into the Gulf EEZ or anywhere for that matter. Bill
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:18 PM   #15
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Re: Proposal to allow limited fish trapping to return to the Gulf.

Dear All,
Looks like we're in lock step with the Florida Sportsman forum for a change.

Check out the comments:


http://forums.floridasportsman.com/forum/conservation-front/fish-traps-coming-back-gulf
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