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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

View Poll Results: Which gun construction would you prefer, with or without reel
Carbon Fiber body 15 75.00%
Aluminium alloy body 2 10.00%
With integrated reel 9 45.00%
Not interested in either option 3 15.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-28-2018, 10:06 PM   #1
popgun pete
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Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

The "Dreamair" speargun, designed and manufactured in Greece, will be available in different lengths and constructions in both a carbon fiber model and an alloy barrel model. This poll seeks to find out which construction would be preferred in guns of longer lengths, say in excess of 120 cm.

Carbon Fiber body

Alloy body

Plus there is a reel, so would you want a reel or leave it off.

This gun is the subject of the long running thread http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=191119

Last edited by popgun pete; 10-28-2018 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 10-29-2018, 06:44 PM   #2
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

This is not a public poll, so how you vote is not recorded and you can select more than one option in the case of the reel question and the construction type.

The attached video shows numerous shots being pumped through a distant target which are right on dead center as the shooting line repeatedly threads it. The sound of the gun firing is very subdued with just a hint of the clunk you get with a pneumatic gun, the rearwards moving piston stopping just forwards of the handle and reel assembly and being decelerated by a hydraulic plunger serving as the "anvil" shock absorber. The "Dreamair" speargun is essentially a high speed cable winch driven by a pneumatic storage energy accumulator, but the user only need think of it as a cable gun as the pneumatic system is completely isolated, unlike pneumatic spearguns where the pistons operate against ambient pressure.

https://youtu.be/k8OnOEnvsB0
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Last edited by popgun pete; 10-31-2018 at 12:47 AM. Reason: more info
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:06 PM   #3
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

People looking but only one vote! Remember it costs you nothing to vote and voting is anonymous, basically this is market research on my part and nothing to do with the company. To my knowledge the only pneumatic speargun using carbon fiber in a production gun is the Salvimar "Dark Side". There the carbon fiber component is the outer tank tube. Most pneumatic spearguns use aluminium alloy tank tubes with a few using titanium, however the latter is expensive and only contemplated where corrosion resistance is paramount such as in the piston-less class of underwater weapons. Minute amounts of saltwater penetrate the gun with each muzzle loading after the shot as water inside the detachable spear tail cap is not fully squeezed out before the spear shaft re-enters the gun. A piston-less "Amatika" Russian speargun is shown in the other photos.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 11-02-2018 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 11-04-2018, 04:57 PM   #4
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

Although not the subject of this thread I am adding the schematic for the "Amatika" speargun which has no inner barrel or piston. When the spear flies out of the gun a tail cap or plug detaches from the spear and blocks the muzzle bore preventing the loss of pressurized air from the gun. The only seal in the gun is the muzzle seal which the spear travels through. These piston-less guns are the most efficient of all spearguns, but need high pressures to be effective underwater weapons as only the cross-sectional area of the spear is exposed to that air pressure and that area is small, say for a 7 mm or 8 mm diameter spear. Compare this with a piston of 11 mm, 12 mm or 13 mm diameter and for a few powerful guns, 14 mm diameter. The “Dreamair” piston cross-sectional area is many times larger, but operates at 11 to 22 atmospheres pressure which is relatively low for pneumatic powered spearguns which are non-consumptive of gas.

As I have shown an "Amatika" gun I might as well add the contact details if anyone wants to buy one. Note that these guns like many Russian "gunsmith" manufactured spearguns are made to order, they are not often held as stock, although you may find one is ready to ship if say a batch of guns had been recently made.
http://www.amatika.com/contact.htm

Whether the "Dreamair" will be made in limited batch production or will be built in full scale mass production I do not know, however I expect the former until the likely consumer demand is known and then production planning can proceed accordingly.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 11-08-2018 at 04:27 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:39 PM   #5
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

If nearly 500 people can view this thread and only a handful of them can bring themselves to vote then it seems to me that the "Dreamair" speargun project is going to have some marketing problems! It appears that a "build it and they will come" philosophy may not produce the demand required until more is seen of the guns, although the alloy gun has had lots of exposure in the "Infinitengines" thread. I have been told that thousands of shots have been put through the guns during testing with no sign of any problems.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:36 AM   #6
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

I guess thatís what it takes.
Send some samples into the world to people who are willing to use and report on them.

Believe me itís not that difficult to create a hype around a product with all the available media these days. It really is up to the inventors. If they expect people will buy it just because it is a quality product they are in for a rough ride.
The quality of a product doesnít guarantee anything these days because it is not necessarily what most people are looking for....
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Old 11-09-2018, 07:46 AM   #7
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

Four years ago the "Dreamair" was said to be released that summer (2014), then something happened and everything seemed to stop. The gun had some parts redesigned (e.g. the shock absorber) and the thread on "Deeper Blue" tracked many of the changes by looking at the web-site, then everything went quiet again and just as many people, including myself, hoped to see the alloy guns on sale everything seemed to stop again. This time it was the carbon fiber gun which for some reason took priority from the alloy gun and now we are waiting for it to be completed. I do not know why the alloy guns were not sold first as they were already developed, but maybe the carbon fiber gun is seen as a better proposition for sales given that many spearfishermen see it as the ultimate speargun construction material. I am not one of them as I see carbon fiber as useful in certain applications, but would not want it in guns which may take some impacts which could damage the resin coat or crack. Anyway until the carbon gun is finalized on current indications we will not see the “Dreamair” which has shimmered in the distance somewhat like a mirage, just as it appears to be getting closer it moves further away.

This poll, which was my idea, was to gauge if the right call had been made and that would be substantiated if the poll numbers were heavily in favor of the carbon fiber construction. Still only a handful of votes, but more carbon fiber votes at the moment.

The more votes there are for a carbon fiber gun then maybe the gun will be given extra effort to bring it to fruition.

Last edited by popgun pete; 11-10-2018 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 12-15-2018, 03:16 PM   #8
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

A month on and only 15 votes, but more votes for the carbon gun. The alloy guns already exist, they are the ones you have seen the photos of, but the carbon guns are dragging their heels for some unknown reason.
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Old 12-15-2018, 03:27 PM   #9
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

I donít see the advantage here for carbon. It is going to be expensive already so my preference would be aluminum.
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Old 12-15-2018, 03:40 PM   #10
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

Quote:
Originally Posted by kodama View Post
I donít see the advantage here for carbon. It is going to be expensive already so my preference would be aluminum.
Have you voted? I voted for the alloy gun, but at the moment there was only one other vote besides mine for that option. I would think that if they had been available earlier maybe fifty ďDreamairĒ guns would be sold by now as early adopters don't worry too much about prices and want the latest and greatest because they are new. The only caveat is the guns need to work and so far there has been no indication that they will not. As I see it there are only two concerns about the "Dreamair", maybe three if we look at longer term storage between outings with the gun.

The first is the need to keep the outer winding drums clear of collisions with hard or sharp objects as any damage to a spiral track groove and there is the risk that the outer cables will then not wind properly and that would be a very big problem for the gun, maybe even involving the replacement of that drum. Such a replacement would not be a big deal as you could do it with the supplied spanner with the gun still under pressure.

The second is the ability to load and cock the gun and that depends on the advantage actually provided by the CVT drive train. IF you cannot cock it then you can bleed air out of the gunís pressure chamber until you can. The question is will a $200 to $300 conventional band gun do the same job without the expensive cable drive system, or even a basic rollergun where the bands wrap the rollers. Basically is the performance advantage, if there is one, worth the extra money? The more air pressure that you can load against without turning yourself inside out then the more positive the answer will be.

The third is the question of sliding piston stick or stiction when the gun is not used for a long time. Nearly all pneumatic guns have their pistons tend to stick in the muzzle because the "O" rings and other dynamic piston seals take a set and the lubricant is squashed out locally, hence they are in a sense temporarily bonded to the inner barrel wall. It usually takes a hard push to get them moving again and then instantly the problem disappears. Now the "Dreamair" has a whopping big piston and it is down the rear end of the gun, not at the front or muzzle end. If the piston sticks then how are you going to budge it? Well I can answer that one as if all else fails then you let all the pressurized air out of the gun and then apply air pressure to the rear bleed valve and push the stuck piston forwards to get it moving again. Then you re-pressurize the gun. Maybe not a quick job, but at least you donít risk busting the cables and then the gun may need opening up, however the inner cable is pretty thick and the outer cables should be easy to replace after you remove the outer winding drums, but it all takes time.

Like all odd ball guns once you fully understand the workings then problems are not so insurmountable, but placing a new band in a muzzle anchor slot on a ďplain vanillaĒ gun takes maybe a minute, and that includes finding the band in your spares box.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 12-15-2018 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 12-15-2018, 05:37 PM   #11
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

Just noticed that the thread views have ticked over a grand since I last looked.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:48 PM   #12
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

Now there is something to vote for as the Carbon Dreamair has finally been unveilled, it is called the "Dreamair Unreal".

Here are the guns for a direct comparison.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:03 PM   #13
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Re: Dreamair cable gun: Carbon Fiber or Alloy Body

Carbon Fiber is just sexier.
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