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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 02-11-2012, 12:51 AM   #31
nigelr
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

I'm thinking that shaft at least missed that poor guys spine...hope I'm right.
I'd bet the exit wound isn't too flash......
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:18 AM   #32
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
I wonder if it would be possible to make a "bump" proof safety on a speargun. I guess that would need to involve a modification of the shaft. Something like a firing pin on a grenade. Sort of like a pin would have to go through a hole in the shaft itself so that even with a hard bump or a pulled trigger the shaft would not physically be able to propel forward unless the pin was removed.
Jack Prodanovich had a "bump proof" safety in his two-piece trigger speargun, the "balanced sear" version. The little jiggle pin in the trigger is the key. If you pull the trigger with your finger the little pin slides back and lifts up a cam at the base of the trigger finger guard, hinged at the rear, so that the cam swings up and out of the way just before the trigger swings right back and the gun shoots. If the trigger is jarred by a bump it runs into the nose of the cam and as the cam cannot swing up because nothing is pushing it, the jiggle pin is loose and has so little mass that it has no effect, the cam stays put (being horizontally disposed) and blocks the trigger. Just shows what a mechanical genius Jack was, yet I don't think anyone has copied it since. I believe I put a photo up of the innards of his gun on this forum, but that image is no longer on my latest computer (the old one died), but a search here should find it.

http://spearboard.com/showthread.php...novich+trigger
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:01 AM   #33
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by Wood Guy View Post
As I used to say to our R & D guys: "In God we trust, but from you, I need to see the data". So, do you have some numbers to share, or are we just talking opinion disguised as facts? Seems to me that divers, regardless of whether they freedive or scuba, use the same mechs. Not sure where you get the idea that " Only a small percentage of SCUBA shooters use a chest load style gun", either. Can you enlighten us on how you came to those conclusions? I can'r tell from the mechs divers use whether they hip load or chest load, or whether they scuba, free dive, or both.
You are correct, it is my opinion disguised as a fact.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:50 AM   #34
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by maidendeth13 View Post
Safeties guarantee nothing.

However if you don't point your gun at your buddy this can't happen...
Exactly my thoughts too - And as far as loaded guns in a boat - Many people do it unfortunately.
I however ALWAYS go through the hassle of loading and unloading rather than take the chance that I could be in some way responsible for an accident. I hate accidents. I've witnessed the results of "friendly fire" in the heat of battle. Certainly don't want to see it involved in the sport that for many has become a miraculous "healer" of wounds - both mental and physical.

People need to be and REMAIN conscious of the golden rule of NEVER pointing the business end of ANY type of projectile firing KILLING device anywhere near a person - EVER. I've trained my mind to keep this at the top of my mental awareness when handling ANY deadly device - Everyone should. A tragedy is almost ALWAYS 99.9999% AVOIDABLE! When an accident happens with a speargun or any type of "killing device" for that matter - I assure you that people have been either totally ignorant or have became "lax" or "nonchalant" about the NUMBER ONE "Golden Rule" of safe weapons handling!!!

And NO - I DON'T use my spearguns provided safety mechanism's. I AM THE SAFETY!

With a rifle, shotgun, or pistol using the safety NEEDS to be a learned and well practiced part of the whole firing routine - It's pretty much second nature to me, yet is something we have to consciously and acutely remain aware of! If your on the range with me - and you are not using your safety you'll hear it from me either immediately before or after you fire your first shots! I not only stay keenly aware of my own practices, but of others around me as well. BE SAFE!!!



.

Last edited by H2O ADDICTION; 02-11-2012 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:24 PM   #35
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by H2O ADDICTION View Post
Exactly my thoughts too - And as far as loaded guns in a boat - Many people do it unfortunately.
I however ALWAYS go through the hassle of loading and unloading rather than take the chance that I could be in some way responsible for an accident. I hate accidents. I've witnessed the results of "friendly fire" in the heat of battle. Certainly don't want to see it involved in the sport that for many has become a miraculous "healer" of wounds - both mental and physical.

People need to be and REMAIN conscious of the golden rule of NEVER pointing the business end of ANY type of projectile firing KILLING device anywhere near a person - EVER. I've trained my mind to keep this at the top of my mental awareness when handling ANY deadly device - Everyone should. A tragedy is almost ALWAYS 99.9999% AVOIDABLE! When an accident happens with a speargun or any type of "killing device" for that matter - I assure you that people have been either totally ignorant or have became "lax" or "nonchalant" about the NUMBER ONE "Golden Rule" of safe weapons handling!!!

And NO - I DON'T use my spearguns provided safety mechanism's. I AM THE SAFETY!

With a rifle, shotgun, or pistol using the safety NEEDS to be a learned and well practiced part of the whole firing routine - It's pretty much second nature to me, yet is something we have to consciously and acutely remain aware of! If your on the range with me - and you are not using your safety you'll hear it from me either immediately before or after you fire your first shots! I not only stay keenly aware of my own practices, but of others around me as well. BE SAFE!!!



.
I think that perhaps the only two things we all agree on is that spearguns should be handled as though they HAVE NO SAFETY, and that the shooter is ultimately responsible for what happens with the speargun. The same can also be said about firearms, however, so I am curious as to why you insist on use of safeties for firearms, but not for a speargun. What do you see as the differences that define why you don't use a safety on a speargun, but insist they be used on firearms? Is it something different about the safeties themselves, the guns, the environments?
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:52 PM   #36
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by Wood Guy View Post
I think that perhaps the only two things we all agree on is that spearguns should be handled as though they HAVE NO SAFETY, and that the shooter is ultimately responsible for what happens with the speargun. The same can also be said about firearms, however, so I am curious as to why you insist on use of safeties for firearms, but not for a speargun. What do you see as the differences that define why you don't use a safety on a speargun, but insist they be used on firearms? Is it something different about the safeties themselves, the guns, the environments?
for me its the environment that is the problem, too many things that can go wrong in a ocean environment , the only firearm i ever use a safety on is a 1911
and occasionally my shotgun .i was taught to keep a gun ether uncharged with a round in the chamber (bolt action) ,unloaded, or ready to use , never loaded with a safety on .
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Old 02-11-2012, 02:15 PM   #37
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood Guy View Post
I think that perhaps the only two things we all agree on is that spearguns should be handled as though they HAVE NO SAFETY, and that the shooter is ultimately responsible for what happens with the speargun. The same can also be said about firearms, however, so I am curious as to why you insist on use of safeties for firearms, but not for a speargun. What do you see as the differences that define why you don't use a safety on a speargun, but insist they be used on firearms? Is it something different about the safeties themselves, the guns, the environments?
The safety on a bullet firing firearm is usually user friendly and somewhat smooth. On a speargun many safety mechs will JAM UP on you if you have a squeeze with the safety on. On a band gun it seems that if the bands are loaded the safety is sometimes almost impossible to thumb to the "Off" position as well. I've experienced a safety JAM with more than a few big name manufacturers spearguns - And it happened on BIG fish more than once as well! Sand or debris safety jams can and do happen with spearguns also. It just so happens I don't usually get my .40 S&W all sandy, and even if I did the tight tolerances probably wouldn't allow sand or debris in anyways.

With my speargun I probably won't have a trip and fall accident, or a snag, or strong bump in the water either. My spear is on a tether (mono) and in the water my range is limited to probably 10 or 20 feet max in the event of an accidental discharge - I am also usually focused towards the direction my speargun is pointing pretty much 100 percent of the time. Not always so with a firearm that you may be carrying, walking with, or setting down loaded. And again the difference in range is without question.

If you drop a firearm (certain guns anyways) they may fire if a round is chambered, especially without the safety on - Drop a loaded speargun in the water, probably no loss, damage, or danger - unless it goes too deep to retrieve!

Using the safety on a firearm and making it a part of the firing sequence is paramount to your safety - and mine! I could probably cite 100 more reasons I use the safety on a firearm and NOT on a speargun... but really I think the majority of everyone gets it, and you do too now!

Last edited by H2O ADDICTION; 02-11-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 02:58 PM   #38
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by maidendeth13 View Post
Safeties guarantee nothing.

However if you don't point your gun at your buddy this can't happen...

showed up today from South Florida Freedivers facebook page

Another good shot just showed up too for those with facebook...
http://www.facebook.com/pages/South-...42729172435717
Someone only has to look in a mirror to see the prime reason these near tragedies occurred. Too many incidents like this and outsiders will seek to step in and close down spearfishing permanently with legislation. There are always political types looking for easy "dragons to slay" to build up their reputations, need I say more!
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:14 PM   #39
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

The best speargun safety that I have ever used is on the discontinued UItimate Brand spearguns. It is the little semi-circle that the middle finger pulls.

that gun is so old that notches are worn into the top of the barrel from wishbone abrasion..LOL


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Old 02-11-2012, 03:25 PM   #40
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by jfjf View Post
The best speargun safety that I have ever used is on the discontinued UItimate Brand spearguns.
Do you mean the safety seen here, on the rear trigger set? It needs a good squeeze to keep it "off". The front trigger set, for the lower barrel shaft, has a sliding cross pin omitted from this image.
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:26 PM   #41
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
Do you mean the safety seen here, on the rear trigger set? It needs a good squeeze to keep it "off". The front trigger set, for the lower barrel shaft, has a sliding cross pin omitted from this image.
well that is the double barrel trigger..
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:44 PM   #42
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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well that is the double barrel trigger..
The rear set is the same mech as the "bullpup" single, only here we see inside the grip. A heavy gun to swim with!
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:55 PM   #43
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

Many firearm manufactures make guns with out safeties . They do so because the very first thing you learn. Only point the gun in a safe direction. Don't put your finger on the trigger until you are actually ready to shoot. I have been shot in an accidental discharge. And the safety was on! Some times the safety ,gives a false sense of safety.
Shoot straight
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:36 PM   #44
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2O ADDICTION View Post
The safety on a bullet firing firearm is usually user friendly and somewhat smooth. On a speargun many safety mechs will JAM UP on you if you have a squeeze with the safety on. On a band gun it seems that if the bands are loaded the safety is sometimes almost impossible to thumb to the "Off" position as well. I've experienced a safety JAM with more than a few big name manufacturers spearguns - And it happened on BIG fish more than once as well! Sand or debris safety jams can and do happen with spearguns also. It just so happens I don't usually get my .40 S&W all sandy, and even if I did the tight tolerances probably wouldn't allow sand or debris in anyways.

With my speargun I probably won't have a trip and fall accident, or a snag, or strong bump in the water either. My spear is on a tether (mono) and in the water my range is limited to probably 10 or 20 feet max in the event of an accidental discharge - I am also usually focused towards the direction my speargun is pointing pretty much 100 percent of the time. Not always so with a firearm that you may be carrying, walking with, or setting down loaded. And again the difference in range is without question.

If you drop a firearm (certain guns anyways) they may fire if a round is chambered, especially without the safety on - Drop a loaded speargun in the water, probably no loss, damage, or danger - unless it goes too deep to retrieve!

Using the safety on a firearm and making it a part of the firing sequence is paramount to your safety - and mine! I could probably cite 100 more reasons I use the safety on a firearm and NOT on a speargun... but really I think the majority of everyone gets it, and you do too now!
Maybe the majority do "get it", and maybe I'm the only one who didn't, but I think you are the first one on the thread to give actual reasons for why you choose not to use a safety on a speargun (I'm not counting the ones who forgot to put the safety on "fire" before trying to shoot a fish, then blamed the safety. Reference my earlier comment on spoons making Rosie O'Donnell fat.). Thanks for getting specific and sharing your thoughts.

It's interesting that one of the simplest firing mechanisms of all types of weapon has the worst reliability. I use a pin inserted in a hole in the side of the trigger mech that holds the sear in place. Until the pin is removed, the sear can't move. After the gun is loaded and I am ready to hunt, I remove the pin (on a lanyard) and the gun is ready to fire. No misfires when the safety "pin" is in, and no jams when the pin is removed. Not pretty or elegant, but very effective.


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Old 02-11-2012, 10:47 PM   #45
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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No misfires when the safety "pin" is in, and no jams when the pin is removed. Not pretty or elegant, but very effective.


not so fast , other things can still happen . about a month ago i got home with one of my personal guns that had just been used by a friend . i pulled the shaft out and it didnt look quite right ,i grabbed the very end of the shaft and it fell of in my hand . i believe the next time the gun was loaded it would have misfired ,and the end of the shaft would still be in the mech.
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