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Old 02-26-2019, 03:52 PM   #91
popgun pete
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by Mana'squal View Post
I can’t find anything on this
I heard it from a friend of the family while the case was on, he being one of the senior men in the sport and highly respected. I suggested at the time that the safety on his gun would be Jay's salvation and that is exactly how it panned out.
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Old 02-26-2019, 03:54 PM   #92
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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I heard it from a friend of the family while the case was on, he being one of the senior men in the sport and highly respected.


Probably buried and reasonably so.
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:48 PM   #93
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by Mana'squal View Post
Probably buried and reasonably so.
Yes, I just did a search for it and I would say it was hushed up, but trawling court records might find it if you have a lot of time to spend, also hospital emergency admissions may find it as these speargun shooting stats are always kept. Suffice to say the following diver was not paying attention to where his gun was pointing and involuntarily squeezed off a shot as he was probably changing direction and had his finger on the trigger while turning his gun.

All big no-no’s often committed by beginners who should master their water skills armed only with a polespear before they are let loose with a gun.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:39 AM   #94
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

After studying firearm safety devices it seems to me that one could be added to speargun trigger mechanisms which would function much like the Glock pistol trigger safety does. Instead of a moving lever in the center of the trigger hook as a Glock has, it could be accomplished with two flanking pieces on either side of the existing trigger that are joined to each other with a cross bar at the rear. The trigger would not be able to be pulled back until the outer levers swung into position when you placed your finger on the trigger which would bring all the levers into line and allow it to swing back and fire the gun. An appropriate slot would have to be made in the upper trigger finger guard area so that the wider trigger could pass through the gap in the pistol grip frame.

I had thought that something like this could be used in a C4, however the trigger used in them is already rather wide and it has a big curving slot in the gun frame that the trigger can swing back into, even though it never swings that far when shooting the gun.

The Glock has three safety features, but only this one can be used in a speargun.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 08-14-2019 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:56 PM   #95
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
After studying firearm safety devices it seems to me that one could be added to speargun trigger mechanisms which would function much like the Glock pistol trigger safety does. Instead of a moving lever in the center of the trigger hook as a Glock has, it could be accomplished with two flanking pieces on either side of the existing trigger that are joined to each other with a cross bar at the rear. The trigger would not be able to be pulled back until the outer levers swung into position when you placed your finger on the trigger which would bring all the levers into line and allow it to swing back and fire the gun. An appropriate slot would have to be made in the upper trigger finger guard area so that the wider trigger could pass through the gap in the pistol grip frame.

I had thought that something like this could be used in a C4, however the trigger used in them is already rather wide and it has a big curving slot in the gun frame that the trigger can swing back into, even though it never swings that far when shooting the gun.

The Glock has three safety features, but only this one can be used in a speargun.

I like that idea, assuming it isn't patented. I'd bet it is. I'm looking forward to the day when more mechanisms with built-in safeties are available to gun builders. It seems that right now just about any mech you can find doesn't include the safety, or even have the option. This has really been on my mind recently for a gun I'm building for a guy's 11 year old son. His first gun. I don't like the idea of putting a gun in a kid's hand without a safety on it. It takes experience and strong situational awareness to avoid sweeping people with your spear tip and even then it still happens all the time.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:13 PM   #96
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by Hpwatson View Post
I like that idea, assuming it isn't patented. I'd bet it is. I'm looking forward to the day when more mechanisms with built-in safeties are available to gun builders. It seems that right now just about any mech you can find doesn't include the safety, or even have the option. This has really been on my mind recently for a gun I'm building for a guy's 11 year old son. His first gun. I don't like the idea of putting a gun in a kid's hand without a safety on it. It takes experience and strong situational awareness to avoid sweeping people with your spear tip and even then it still happens all the time.
You can forget about any patent as there are already variations on this idea both before and after the Glock. There is the problem that when a speargun trigger mechanism relatches it pushes the trigger back momentarily on most trigger mechanisms, so the safety has to allow for that movement. Aimrite have a red plastic safety that leans on the back of the trigger rather than the trigger leaning on the gun frame, but being built into the trigger finger hook I think is a good idea.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:31 PM   #97
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
You can forget about any patent as there are already variations on this idea both before and after the Glock. There is the problem that when a speargun trigger mechanism relatches it pushes the trigger back slightly on most trigger mechanisms, so the safety has to allow for that movement. Aimrite have a red plastic safety that leans on the back of the trigger rather than the trigger leaning on the gun frame, but being built into the trigger finger hook I think is a good idea.

Are you aware of any trigger mechanisms for sale that include a safety? I'd like to check some out. I always use neptonics and like their gear but I wish I at least had the option. The add-on safety thing they offer looks pretty iffy to me.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:49 PM   #98
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Are you aware of any trigger mechanisms for sale that include a safety? I'd like to check some out. I always use neptonics and like their gear but I wish I at least had the option. The add-on safety thing they offer looks pretty iffy to me.
The "Sea Hornet" and "AB Biller" have them built-in because they are part of the sear box. When spearguns were built around cast alloy clamshell handles the safeties were always built-in, and that continued with plastic versions, some with dubious ambidextrous sliding safeties on top of which some were better than others. The "Ocean Rhino" has one of the best safeties with levers on either side of the grip.

For a cassette trigger mechanism installation the safety lever pivot really needs to be part of the cassette, such as is the case with the venerable "Undersee" mech. The safety control rod uses the rear mounting holes in the cassette.


https://www.diversworld.com.au/produ...h-with-safety/
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Old 08-19-2019, 09:37 AM   #99
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by Hpwatson View Post
Are you aware of any trigger mechanisms for sale that include a safety? I'd like to check some out. I always use neptonics and like their gear but I wish I at least had the option. The add-on safety thing they offer looks pretty iffy to me.
https://neptonics.com/product/reef-safety-kit/ if you use the Reef Mech. Not sure if Josh ever put together something comparable for the Tuna Mech.
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:32 PM   #100
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by Gary H View Post
https://neptonics.com/product/reef-safety-kit/ if you use the Reef Mech. Not sure if Josh ever put together something comparable for the Tuna Mech.


The Sea Sniper used a rotating safety as seen here. The advantage of a rotating lever is the status of the safety can be seen at a glance. Basically a cam on the safety control shaft leans against the back of the trigger jamming it in position until you turn the control lever to "fire".
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Last edited by popgun pete; 08-19-2019 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:02 PM   #101
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

Here is an interesting safety mechanism for a crossbow. Unlike a speargun a crossbow holds the bowstring, not the projectile, which is placed on the crossbow after the weapon is cocked. The advantage of this design is the mechanism can be latched while the safety is still “on”, in fact the safety is always “on” until your hand compresses the rear lever on the handle. This design, or a variation on it, could be used on mid-handle spearguns where there is enough room for the various levers and rods.
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:38 PM   #102
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

If your gun has the standard trigger mechanism where the trigger hook is positioned at the rear end then it is very easy to use the rear pair of mounting holes on the sear box to hold the transverse control shaft that will turns a cam that pushes on the back of the trigger hook. This arrangement can be seen in the “Undersee” mechanism diagram above.

Reverse trigger mechanisms have the trigger at the front end of the mech, so there the safety cam position is not able to be mounted on the sear box frame and needs to be mounted on the timber or carbon fiber stock instead and at the correct spacing from the trigger. Alternatively one could apply a cam that operated on the front of the trigger rather than behind it if there is some feature on the sear box that lends itself to this conversion. For example there is an unused hole in the front of the Ermes Sub Double Roller trigger mechanism, but it would take some ingenuity to fit a cam inside there where it would rotate out of the way when switched to "off". A combination of rotation and lateral motion may do the trick as the trigger does not fill the sear box from side to side, there are small gaps for some obstruction to move into and get of the way of the trigger when pulled.
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Old 08-20-2019, 03:01 AM   #103
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

Actually Ermessub triggers do have a safety adapted to that extra hole. I have never personally tried it but I have seen it on the website. Last few weeks I have been playing around with the idea of designing a foolproof safety for that trigger ... it would have to be able to lock the trigger sear and it would also have to survive a severe "drop or bump" test to make sure the shaft would never slip the sear. However with open muzzle spearguns there is always the possibility that the shaft will come off the muzzle and simply shear off the shaft sear notch and fire in some instances ... so again not sure if it would still be a bombproof safety. I guess you could also have a shaft with side holes and you put a side ways rod ... sort of like a grenade safety pin ... this would be an additional safety ... but I can see that also causing problems as someone might try to fire the gun and forget that pin is there and thus have a dangerous situation.
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:51 PM   #104
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

There is a safety that does not use a rotating cam and was developed by Jack Prodanovich for his single-piece trigger speargun. This safety device uses a revolving lever to project a transverse pin into the trigger mechanism by way of a helical drive which consists of a spiral ramp with a lateral pin projecting out of the safety control rod that slides on the ramp. Here it is seen in the “Spearfisherman Magnum” which is a copy of Jack’s gun.

This a very compact safety as it only occupies one side of the housing for the trigger mechanism.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:25 PM   #105
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Actually Ermessub triggers do have a safety adapted to that extra hole. I have never personally tried it but I have seen it on the website. Last few weeks I have been playing around with the idea of designing a foolproof safety for that trigger ... it would have to be able to lock the trigger sear and it would also have to survive a severe "drop or bump" test to make sure the shaft would never slip the sear. However with open muzzle spearguns there is always the possibility that the shaft will come off the muzzle and simply shear off the shaft sear notch and fire in some instances ... so again not sure if it would still be a bombproof safety. I guess you could also have a shaft with side holes and you put a side ways rod ... sort of like a grenade safety pin ... this would be an additional safety ... but I can see that also causing problems as someone might try to fire the gun and forget that pin is there and thus have a dangerous situation.
And here it is, must have been a tight squeeze and it has a short angular movement for "on" and "off" on the control lever, but is a good idea as it exploits the upper hook in the trigger for locating the ends of the torsion biasing springs on either side.

I suggest that if you have one of these mechs on your gun then fitting one of these safeties would be a good insurance policy, both in the water and in the court room if you have the misfortune to end up there.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 08-21-2019 at 04:09 PM.
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