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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 08-17-2019, 09:47 AM   #166
PigStikr
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
… trying a more powerful load will not give you any velocity gain as the low handle will cause the gun muzzle to lift up too much and you will end up with less power if you push the bands hard. I know that as I tried to maximize performance on my Abbiller guns.
My gun is lengthened and I attached side stocks weighted with lead. Also added a semi-enclosed track. This mod combined with firmly restraining the stock extension from rearward travel results in negligible jump - the spear hits maybe a couple inches low with very high power.
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I did take apart the trigger of an Abbiller gun to service it a while back … and was pretty surprised to see that the sears were cut out of just 2.5mm plate !!!
That's pretty scary.
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Old 08-17-2019, 04:48 PM   #167
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules

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My gun is lengthened and I attached side stocks weighted with lead. Also added a semi-enclosed track. This mod combined with firmly restraining the stock extension from rearward travel results in negligible jump - the spear hits maybe a couple inches low with very high power.
That's pretty scary.
The Biller is designed to do a certain job and the levers are adequate for the task required on what is basically a light to medium gun. It is only scary if you don't understand why it is built that way. That family of guns has been around since the late sixties as a Sea Hornet which the US manufactured Biller is based on. They are made to an affordable price unlike say a C4 Carbon which can cost over a grand. A lot depends on what you want to do with it, if you need a more powerful gun then you buy another gun.

I have about 5 guns for different jobs, although the gun rack contains a few more than that. Too many guns and your shooting goes off as practice makes perfect when you put the time in on different guns. For target practice I shoot fish as I don’t have access to a pool.

Last edited by popgun pete; 08-17-2019 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:22 AM   #168
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules

The Abbiller guns are perfect if used as setup by factory. I have bought and owned over 20 Abbiller guns and I have one Teak Ltd. 60" that has more fish caught with it than all of my other guns combined. Those were the best guns at the time (about 25 years ago) and fish were much more plentiful and easier to get close to. Of course those guns have limitations and like everything else, things improve incrementally and those increments add up to quite a lot. I have seen quite a few people try and push their Abbiller guns to match today's high performance setups … but that is dangerous and will not get you anywhere. In my testing, I was only able to gain about 10% or 20% over the default factory setups ... and even then that caused a heavier trigger pull and problems with slide ring lodging in the slide ring stopper. When I took the trigger apart I realized that it was already setup at max and should not be pushed harder. The Abbiller guns will still catch plenty of fish and even today I can see myself using one if I would scuba dive oil rigs and use Kevlar line (with slide ring you have zero band tangles no matter what line you use) … but for freediving in relatively clear water, where you need high accuracy and very fast flat shooting shafts … you are going to be severely handicapped.
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Old 08-18-2019, 04:25 PM   #169
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules

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The Abbiller guns are perfect if used as setup by factory. I have bought and owned over 20 Abbiller guns and I have one Teak Ltd. 60" that has more fish caught with it than all of my other guns combined. Those were the best guns at the time (about 25 years ago) and fish were much more plentiful and easier to get close to. Of course those guns have limitations and like everything else, things improve incrementally and those increments add up to quite a lot. I have seen quite a few people try and push their Abbiller guns to match today's high performance setups … but that is dangerous and will not get you anywhere. In my testing, I was only able to gain about 10% or 20% over the default factory setups ... and even then that caused a heavier trigger pull and problems with slide ring lodging in the slide ring stopper. When I took the trigger apart I realized that it was already setup at max and should not be pushed harder. The Abbiller guns will still catch plenty of fish and even today I can see myself using one if I would scuba dive oil rigs and use Kevlar line (with slide ring you have zero band tangles no matter what line you use) … but for freediving in relatively clear water, where you need high accuracy and very fast flat shooting shafts … you are going to be severely handicapped.
Maybe that last sentence would be of interest to Spear One (Kevin) as he sold his “Ocean Rhino” guns in Florida for lineshafting and freeshafting that were based on the “Sea Hornet” guns, but with his own spears and rigging, plus an optional long Professional muzzle of his own design. The reason that he had to create his own “Ocean Rhino” gun was when “Sea Hornet”, in a very bad business decision, decided to hand exclusive distribution in the USA to TUSA who had no clues on spearfishing and the enterprise subsequently collapsed.

The "Sea Hornet" mech, in its original form, was invented by Wally Gibbins for his own shoulder gun that was powered by two 3/4" bands and later in slimmed down form was the basis for the mass produced "Sea Hornet".

As for shooting line tangles the line running back to the shaft tab or shaft cross drilling means that the line has to double up on itself as the spear tail reaches the muzzle. The longer that loop is, which can be nearly the length of the spear, it can then potentially lasso gun elements on the way out of the gun.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 08-18-2019 at 04:49 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:32 AM   #170
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules

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I have seen quite a few people try and push their Abbiller guns to match today's high performance setups … but that is dangerous and will not get you anywhere. In my testing, I was only able to gain about 10% or 20% over the default factory setups ... and even then that caused a heavier trigger pull and problems with slide ring lodging in the slide ring stopper. When I took the trigger apart I realized that it was already setup at max and should not be pushed harder.
You apparently were trying to put more band tension on the trigger mech. Making the speargun longer will get more velocity without putting more band tension on the trigger mech if the bands are sized accordingly, but will give much more power. A dragster will be going much faster at 1/4 mile than at 200 yds, more time to accelerate. The other huge loss with rubber guns is that the last foot or two of spear travel gets you nothing, as the bands are relaxed completely. Thus a longer gun gets you much more 'active' band acceleration distance.
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Old 09-14-2019, 01:22 AM   #171
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules

Popgun: So what would you consider to be the optimum design goals of a speargun trigger, in order of importance?
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Old 09-14-2019, 03:00 AM   #172
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules

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Popgun: So what would you consider to be the optimum design goals of a speargun trigger, in order of importance?
Reliability, consistent smooth pull, light enough that it is not a hair trigger, but not so firm that you tend to twist the gun around when you pull the trigger.
If it gets gunk in it (sand, marine detritus) then brandishing the gun through the water by holding the front end of the gun a few times gets it out, preferably not ever pointing the business end at yourself and for safety unhook the bands first. Drop a loaded gun on a sandy wave washed bottom and you will know what I am talking about. In the worst cases I had to take the gun apart later and on the day grab another gun. Always have a second gun.
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Old Yesterday, 09:21 AM   #173
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules

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Reliability, consistent smooth pull, light enough that it is not a hair trigger, but not so firm that you tend to twist the gun around when you pull the trigger....
Absolutely spot on... I think it couldn't be described in a better way.

I recently shortened the bands in a Bucanero II gun (inverted mech, all metal) and noticed how the trigger got much harder to pull... accuracy goes out the window...
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