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Old 03-03-2017, 04:34 PM   #46
Silvertriton
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

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Originally Posted by FreediveCA View Post
I am using 1.9 so mine is a little thicker than what Majd is using. When I did the Bimini twist I didn't do as many twists as suggested. I think I only did about 10. It is a little waxed, but totally different than the Riffe line. I have been using the figure 8 on this line for a year or so (maybe it's been a couple of years) and haven't had a problem, but I don't want to risk any problems either. I, however, do not use glue. Below is a side by side comparison of the Bimini twist and the figure 8 using the Aussie (Benthic) line. As you can see, even using less twists than suggested, the knot is much longer, but not too much thinner than the figure 8.

Attachment 231721
The figure of 8 can be made flatter with a couple of gentle taps with a tool. Also since the turns are larger and with double lines, there should be in theory less tight pinch and more shock absorption when suddenly under stress... at least in theory...
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:42 PM   #47
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

Do you think a bottom line release would help with some of the tangles or is it really just that first over the shaft wrap that is the problem?
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:43 PM   #48
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

That was very cool to see. Thanks for posting, Jon and thank you Peter for going through the trouble. Also, I couldn't agree more with you on the plus sides of mono. However, I will willingly forgo those positves for the positives of the Aussie line, band tangles being one of them. Don't get me wrong, I understand that the Aussie line is subject to band tangles as well, but so far I feel with the way the line plays in the water from the initial trigger pull is better than mono.

I would be interested to try out that line you are working on. When do you think you guys will roll it out?
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:48 PM   #49
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

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Originally Posted by Silvertriton View Post
The figure of 8 can be made flatter with a couple of gentle taps with a tool. Also since the turns are larger and with double lines, there should be in theory less tight pinch and more shock absorption when suddenly under stress... at least in theory...
Very true and worth noting. If I wasn't at my desk I would have had a tighter knot so perhaps it would actually be as thin as the Bimini twist. If that is the case I am thinking to rule out the Bimini twist as an option.
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:57 PM   #50
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

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Do you think a bottom line release would help with some of the tangles or is it really just that first over the shaft wrap that is the problem?
You are referring to band tangles (i.e. bands tangling with the shooting line), correct? If so, I don't believe the line release plays a part. Look back at the video Jon posted and you will see where it is happening. I don't think the line release was even part of the equation at the time the tangle occurs. In fact, it appears that the line corrects itself before the line is even fully released. These tangles occur because the line is on the topside of the gun running along with the bands from the end of the shaft to the muzzle. At least that is the way it makes sense to me. Especially after viewing that video and other slowmo videos of such tangles.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:04 PM   #51
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

The Shooting lines are brought down from the line release and sit low on a peg. I think this is more about wavelength and how that particular loop of that length and diameter of mono finds itself just in the wrong spot . It's the kind of thing that 99.9% of the people wouldn't recognize and you would never even see it without a Side angle to the video. But sure, one way you could adjust the wavelength of that problem loop by changing the release point.

It's funny because I think I was one of the early ones to use Braided shooting lines and the reason I stopped using them was because @ 10yrs ago I sent 2 guns out to Barry P and another one of his West Australia crew with some nice double wrap dyneema shooting lines, and then I got this message from the other guy that he missed two Giant Wahoo because the line tangled in the bands and I was so upset that I switched back to Mono..

This line is very different. I cannot make it kink. I hope I'll have stock here within a few weeks. We've been making specialty Kink resistant Dyneema Reel Lines for a while, but this is a line specifically developed as a shooting line.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:18 PM   #52
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

You can't please everyone. The best you can do as a gun builder is try to please the masses, unless of course it's a custom gun. If you sent me a gun with mono I would switch it out just the same as if you sent someone else spectra they may switch to mono. The best you can do is anticipate what the majority is going to want.
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:17 AM   #53
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

Here is a video I did of how I crimp the stiff spectra. For those who worry about the loop closing, I did another crimping system where you just put a stopper loop to prevent the loop from closing. It is not as streamlined as the simple loop, but still much more streamlined than a knot.

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Old 03-23-2017, 03:02 PM   #54
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

Thanks, Majd. This way of looping/crimping is different than what you were doing before, correct? Perhaps it just looks different in the video vs the pictures you posted. Either way looks like a great alternative to knots if those are in fact the weak point. Plus the added bonus of being more streamlined.

Have you done any strength tests for the crimp beyond what you have done previously using your weight? Perhaps something comparable to what Paul Hutchings and Rob Allen we're doing for the strength with a knot.
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:32 PM   #55
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

The simple loop crimp is the same, but I did change where I put the stopper knot on the non slip version. Both will probably work, but I tested things without crimping to simulate better the slippage and the way I put it in the video worked best. It could be that if you crimp the line then both will work equally well.
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:18 PM   #56
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

I like how streamlined the simple loop is. I'll be giving that a shot. Damn you! I thought I was done with crimps. The simplicity and convenience of tying a knot is so appealing.
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:45 PM   #57
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

I recently had my rig tested when diving with my reef (gun 120cm, 7mm Sigal Shaft, 1x16mm Sigal band @380% and 70m 1.9 dyneema on Ulusub reel, 300lb mono).
A chance encounter with a 20-25Kg YFT presented me with an excellent shot at 3m. After its run, I had the tuna under control with about 20m of line out. Working with everything I had, as Bull sharks are common around this spot, I was getting the tuna back up when the shark got it. I had to just watch the last 50m of line spin off the reel so quickly I thought the reel might explode! There were bubbles coming of it as it cavitated and water around it turned yellow from the line whizzing through the guide. I hung on to the gun for grim death wondering what I was going to be left with and was kinda happy to see the mono had given at the shaft.
All the crimps held and I had luckily just replaced the dyneema shooting line with 300lb mono the day before. Would have lost the gun for sure.
Ive been spooled quickly by Mackerel before but this was off the richter! I'll never forget the sound of that reel spooling! Props to Ulusub reels too.
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Old 03-26-2017, 07:35 PM   #58
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

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Originally Posted by FreediveCA View Post
You are referring to band tangles (i.e. bands tangling with the shooting line), correct? If so, I don't believe the line release plays a part. Look back at the video Jon posted and you will see where it is happening. I don't think the line release was even part of the equation at the time the tangle occurs. In fact, it appears that the line corrects itself before the line is even fully released. These tangles occur because the line is on the topside of the gun running along with the bands from the end of the shaft to the muzzle. At least that is the way it makes sense to me. Especially after viewing that video and other slowmo videos of such tangles.
Depends ,there are 2 main types of band tangles , the line playing out at full range ,and close in where you hit the fish close to the gun and the band's can snag on the loops of line at the muzzle . A bottom relese definitely reduces the second type of tangle and is much more of a problem in actual spearfishing that's the tangle that gets the gun ripped out of your hands when the fish takes his first run
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:50 AM   #59
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

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Originally Posted by NPG-70 View Post
I recently had my rig tested when diving with my reef (gun 120cm, 7mm Sigal Shaft, 1x16mm Sigal band @380% and 70m 1.9 dyneema on Ulusub reel, 300lb mono).
A chance encounter with a 20-25Kg YFT presented me with an excellent shot at 3m. After its run, I had the tuna under control with about 20m of line out. Working with everything I had, as Bull sharks are common around this spot, I was getting the tuna back up when the shark got it. I had to just watch the last 50m of line spin off the reel so quickly I thought the reel might explode! There were bubbles coming of it as it cavitated and water around it turned yellow from the line whizzing through the guide. I hung on to the gun for grim death wondering what I was going to be left with and was kinda happy to see the mono had given at the shaft.
All the crimps held and I had luckily just replaced the dyneema shooting line with 300lb mono the day before. Would have lost the gun for sure.
Ive been spooled quickly by Mackerel before but this was off the richter! I'll never forget the sound of that reel spooling! Props to Ulusub reels too.
Cool write-up, I could almost hear your reel zinging away:-)
Those pigtails are never particularly strong though, I can def understand why it seems more and more people are getting rid of them ("RA slip knot" seems a good alternative). On my "test bench" the 2mm pigtails have failed at about 80kg and started deforming quite a bit earlier. Obviously purely speculating here but given that the rest of the tackle looks in OK shape (especially the pigtail) it looks the most like an abrasion failure at the spear more than anything else, no?
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:29 AM   #60
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Re: Crimping stiff spectra

Absolutely. That was the weak and Im glad it was there.
But that was just my little reef gun and it held up to the tuna fine (albeit a smaller one).
The point being though the crimped dyneema with single bend on the line side didn't yield or even tighten on the loop.
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