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2008 SBO Blue Storm Classic - May 17-18 This is the traditional Spearboard Open to be held May 17-18, 2008 - New Port Richey Rotary Pavilion

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Old 05-30-2008, 08:59 PM   #16
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Re: is this true?

Right on, Wolf. Here's a nice scenario:
He competes at the Worlds and shoots a great fish and helps the team to a victory. One of the other teams files a complaint questioning his fish. The incident at the SBO can't help his or the US team's credibility. In my eyes, once a cheater, always a cheater. On top of that, if you cheat at a small Florida tournament then what are you going to do at the World class level?
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:01 PM   #17
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Re: is this true?

Apexpredator if I ever had any respect for you I just lost it after reading your ridiculous post. PLEASE!!
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:18 AM   #18
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Re: is this true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMako View Post
On top of that, if you cheat at a small Florida tournament then what are you going to do at the World class level?
My thoughts exactly...

Apex I understand the recruiting mindset you're explaining, but I don't see how a drive to compete flawed with that mentality would be acceptable...unless cheating is how they all go about competing on a world class level...if that's the case I personally would have no aspirations to get into it...or respect what they accomplish for that matter. It all turns into entertainment & they are just "legends in their own mind".
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:40 AM   #19
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Re: is this true?

what is complaining about this going to accomplish ???? just wondering lol
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:27 AM   #20
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Re: is this true?

My thoughts were this:
Maybe someone in charge of the U.S. team is listening...........
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Old 06-01-2008, 07:12 AM   #21
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Re: is this true?

BigMako:

I agree. It would nice if someone would take enough notice to ban him from the team.

Apex:

I can't believe you can categorize what he did as a "mistake". Are you saying he just wandered into the Bahamas by accident and didn't realize he was breaking Bahamian law and violating the SBO rules? What he did was planned and executed with complete understanding of what he was doing. That is not a "mistake". It would be nice if people would start taking responsibility for their actions instead of threatening law suits and having others trying to mitigate the actions by calling it a mistake.
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:53 AM   #22
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Re: is this true?

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I have a friend who is a corporate recruiter and he tells me in confidence that big corporations sometimes look favorably on candidates that have had allegations of cheating at the college level as long as their grades are very good. Their reasoning for this is that such people are so incredibly competitive and goal driven that they would even consider cheating to get that extra edge. Makes sense....can you imagine being a A student and being so driven that an A minus seems out of the question?....me neither I guess that's why I have a regular job and graduated college with a B average.

About Harolf....I understand the dude is an animal. Everyone who has dove with him says he has incredible ability. He has probably dedicated himself greatly to have earned a spot on the worlds team. The SBO is not a event that count towards or should affect his eligibility for the US Worlds Team. Some suggest the US may take a credibility hit by including him.....I don't think so. I bet he will do a great job representing the USA if he is willing to continue to make the sacrifices and put forth the effort to attend the event. People here should just quietly accept that sometimes good people make big mistakes.

All this hype and hoopla about "rooting out" cheaters and polygraphs probably makes for good TV and someone out there is probably pretty happy about that.

BTW his credibility at the international level probably takes a bigger hit by people knowing that he competed in a event that includes scuba shooters than by them knowing that he allegedly cheated to place higher....I am not saying that is right I am just stating what people probably think in the international freedive spearfishing circuit. Just about anywhere else other than the USA scuba spearing is perceived as a harvest (or poaching) activity and not a competitive sport.
Apex, I think your post has to be one of the most ridiculous and disgusting of all times.
I don't now what corporations you are familiar with but I have worked for 3 major multi-national corporations during my career and I must say that all of them would get rid of you in a moment's notice should it be discovered that you major cheated to gain advantage with respect to your work.
Otherwise "good people" who make major mistakes are held accountable for their actions. Please note that when one cheats, he denies another what is rightfully his. How did this person get where he is? By cheating? Would you want this type of person representing you in a world event? I think not! This type of behavior cannot just be quietly accepted and "swept under the rug".
You dismiss lie detection procedures as something for entertainment only fully ignoring its role in the everyday legal process.
And finally, you are suggesting that the international freediving community will look less unfavorably upon actual cheating to gain advantage than upon a freediver competing in a tournament allowing both scuba and freediving.
IMO,that would be a far stretch of logic.
And please change your avatar. Is your spearfishing ability limited to shooting poor little defenseless spadefish?
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:13 AM   #23
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Re: is this true?

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Apex, I think your post has to be one of the most ridiculous and disgusting of all times.
I don't now what corporations you are familiar with but I have worked for 3 major multi-national corporations during my career and I must say that all of them would get rid of you in a moment's notice should it be discovered that you major cheated to gain advantage with respect to your work.
Otherwise "good people" who make major mistakes are held accountable for their actions. Please note that when one cheats, he denies another what is rightfully his. How did this person get where he is? By cheating? Would you want this type of person representing you in a world event? I think not! This type of behavior cannot just be quietly accepted and "swept under the rug".
You dismiss lie detection procedures as something for entertainment only fully ignoring its role in the everyday legal process.
And finally, you are suggesting that the international freediving community will look less unfavorably upon actual cheating to gain advantage than upon a freediver competing in a tournament allowing both scuba and freediving.
IMO,that would be a far stretch of logic.
And please change your avatar. Is your spearfishing ability limited to shooting poor little defenseless spadefish?
Always trying to stick it to someone aren't you?
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:31 AM   #24
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Re: is this true?

So at the World's, the USA team has to bring along an extra duffle bag of their free sponsor equipment, to pay off the boat's observer and place higher? " Hey Mr manufacturer, give us a couple of extra guns, fins, & wetsuits and we'll fix it so we're in 1st place ". That manufacturer needs to look for a new team, they've waited too long already to make an announcement.
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:38 AM   #25
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Re: is this true?

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Always trying to stick it to someone aren't you?
It's always nice to see someone from the TOB gang chime in.
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:55 PM   #26
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Re: is this true?

apexpredator,
You seem like a nice kid. Having said that, I hope you make it out from under those rose colored glasses you seem to be wearing. If you read most of the posts here you can draw the conclusion that there were suspicions that the cheating has been going on for years. He just got caught this year. Integrity means everything to most of us. If I can't trust you, then I don't want you representing me in any fashion. This includes employment. Cheating is lying, lying is cheating. All that adds up to a dishonest person. I refuse to debate semantics with someone who obviously lives in a sheltered world. The man cheated his friends. I consider all spearos my friends whether I know them or not. Consider this, what have you won if you cheat your friends to win a trophy and a prize at a spearfishing tournament. You are lying to yourself. You feel you don't have the ability to win on your own merit, so you cheat. Is this the kind of person you want representing the United States? I sure as hell don't! I hate liars and cheats. End of story.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:00 PM   #27
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Re: is this true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by apexpredator View Post
... Harolf. I do not know him but his reputation as a talented apnea spearo precedes him. I know a little about what it takes to earn a spot on the world team and it can not be accomplished by just cheating. It is likely he never cheated in any event that counted towards earning his place on that team.
Well, far as I'm concerned if he cheated once and got caught, how many times did he cheat and not get caught? My personal feeling is that if he's prepared to cheat in one comp he's prepared to cheat in them all...and probably has been cheating all along.

In the world of competition, any competition, this is accepted theory. Harolf Dean should be dropped by his sponsors immediately, he should be blacklisted from all future comps, at least for several years, and any past achievements or awards should be retracted. Just like those guys who have been caught out cheating by using drugs in the Olympics etc who have had to return their gold medals etc. A cheat is a cheat, just as a liar is a liar and a thief a thief. An y guy who cheats to win a tournament is basically stealing that tournament and should be castigated and penalised as if he were a thief!

I really hope that all reputable spearos and competition organisers ensure this character does not tarnish our sport any further, and I will personally try to ensure he never gains entry to any tournament I am involved with. He may be able to freedive better than anyone in the world, but he's a cheat, so I don't believe anything he says or does.

And that's my .02c.
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:00 PM   #28
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Re: is this true?

[quote=apexpredator;719307]
I also think people deserve second chances. Nobody commenting on this thread including myself knows Harolf personally. It is also troubling that those that do have not come to his defense. BTW the failure of a voice stress test gives little indication as to what exactly happened yet folks here are ready to draw their own conclusions. We don't even know what questions were asked. The consequence of failing the test was being DQ'd from the competition....end of story.
QUOTE]

Apex,

I can agree from the thread that there has never been a real story posted( especially from the person who dealt hands on with it, my guess is that is Tony although I could be wrong and he has the right to post that info or not post it) as to what exactly took place and therefore jumping to conclusions is or can be a cheap shot.

But if the posts and comments in here are true then he is not a good person to be representing our sport.

For instance what if one of and I don't know if you do or don't have any kids was looking up to this person as a role model and then started to feel that being a cheat is OK. I can't imagine you would be OK with that as a parent.

Like others have said a cheat is a cheat, thief is a thief and so on.

I run a fairly large construction company and own large amounts of tools that occasionally grow legs if you know what I mean. Believe me if I find the person who occasionally helps himself to my tools he won't last two more seconds on my crew. And no a person like this does not deserve a second chance one bit. I have worked to many hard hours to find out if I can trust someone again.

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Old 06-04-2008, 03:50 PM   #29
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Re: is this true?

Appex, I did'nt lose respect because you said he deserved another chance. Instead because you yourself used hearsay and opinion to try to defend his actions. Which by the way are indefensible. your logic was at best difficult to follow. You choose to defend this person, not me. Live with your actions. And just so you dont think I am unforgiving. To be forgivin one must show remorse and repent. Where can I find a public apology from thiw wonderful representitive of the dive community. Until he addmits his wrong without excuses he deserves nothing. when he acts like a man he will be treated like one. If he comes on here and apologizes alot could be done to earn his respect. When people like you who admittidly do not know him use hearsay to defend him it stirs the hornets nest that much more.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:48 AM   #30
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Re: is this true?

The organisers of the World Championships should also be notified that this guy is a known cheater and there's a strong likelihood he will probably attempt to cheat again at the Worlds, in whatever manner possible. If his fellow US team members are not objecting to his presence in the US team maybe they too are happy to cheat, or be tarnished by the same brush. A man is known by the company he keeps...

It is a sad day when our sport has come to this.
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