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Old 07-01-2014, 10:51 AM   #16
Trimbandit
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

I have used a few plastic blades, FB, FB/Carbon and full carbon.
I am been using mares carbon for the last couple years and I love the fins and the foot pockets. I consider them one of my favorite pieces of gear.


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Originally Posted by jdeirmend View Post
Also, here are some things to keep in mind:
7. $200 or more for blades alone is a lot of money
It is a lot of money, but less than a good wetsuit and fins will last much longer. No one bats an eye at $500-$1000+, but you really don't really *need* an expensive gun to shoot fish either.
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:00 PM   #17
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

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i recently got the leaderfins (carbon+fiberglass) fins from makospearguns.com and i love them much easier to kick than the plastics with a better propel
do you used them for shore dives? or just boat dives?
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:48 PM   #18
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

Used all sorts of plastic for years, H'dessault to Riffe. I mean who needs to spend that much money on glass or CF fins? That was my opinion. Then I got the 85cm fiberglass from Mako. Yep, took it to a new level. Guess there is something to it after all...
I've tried a couple CF, nice but.... Meh, the performance difference hasn't justified the price difference,...... yet. I'll try Mako CF fins when they come in 85cm. For what it is worth, if I'm going to dive hard shore diving with lots of rocks and crashing conditions I'll strap on the plastic. For everything else go FG...
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:02 PM   #19
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

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Used all sorts of plastic for years, H'dessault to Riffe. I mean who needs to spend that much money on glass or CF fins? That was my opinion. Then I got the 85cm fiberglass from Mako. Yep, took it to a new level. Guess there is something to it after all...
I've tried a couple CF, nice but.... Meh, the performance difference hasn't justified the price difference,...... yet. I'll try Mako CF fins when they come in 85cm. For what it is worth, if I'm going to dive hard shore diving with lots of rocks and crashing conditions I'll strap on the plastic. For everything else go FG...
This. Seriously, a good pair of stiff FG blades will run $120-160, whereas with carbons, you will find that median pricing is probably around $300. You can find budget CF blades for less, but the fact that they are "carbon fiber" doesn't mean much when you consider that their fabric density is going to be generally low.

The truth is that the properties really aren't THAT much different between the two substances, viz. carbon fiber impregnated resin vs. stiff glass fiber. Without knowing the physics in detail, the increase in power transfer efficiency and responsiveness, I would reckon, shouldn't be more than 10-20% between carbon and FG blades. That's admittedly a guess, but if someone knows different, I'm open to hear it.

Still, the difference between quality modern plastic fins and the FG, by educated guess, ought to be around the same or less. The new Cressi LD Pro's, for instance, make up for being plastic by changing the angle of the foot pocket. Granted they are a fixed fin/pocket solution, but they are also on sale right now for $80. I can't imagine that there are any FG fins out there that are that much better than these plastic ones, even if quality carbons will beat them by a significant margin.

In closing, I will stick to my guns. There is absolutely no way a $350 fin solution is going to be better enough than either plastic or FG blades, for your average socal spearo, to justify the 2X to 5X price increase. If you are a serious freediver hunting deep dwelling fish at depths of 30' or more, or are loaded and have a need to feel that you've got the top gear, I suppose it's a different story.
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:19 PM   #20
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

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Originally Posted by jdeirmend View Post
I personally have noticed very little significant difference between plastic and the allegedly high quality fiberglass fins I've owned (Nemo fiberglass, Picasso Black Teams and the old Cressi 3000 LD's). If anything, the Nemo's, at their medium-soft rigidity, simply weren't stiff enough to transfer kicking force efficiently when diving downwards. I don't know from first hand experience, but I cannot imagine that any type of carbon fiber fins would be that much more suitable to your purposes. A high rigidity fiber glass fin is probably going to mimic the relevant properties of CF in resin pretty damn well, and cost you almost half the price.

Also, here are some things to keep in mind:

1. Most desirable game fish in California, particularly Socal, aren't typically deep dwelling
2. If you're not routinely making 30'+ drops for lings and rockfish, top of the line fins aren't particularly necessary
3. You can slay all the seabass, halibut, YT and other exotic pelagics you want right from the surface
4. Halibut and WSB are often most abundant, concentration wise, well within 10-100' of the shore
5. Most individuals do not have the stealth/skill/movement down to successfully stalk and shoot fish like WSB and YT on a drop of 10', let alone 30'.
6. Being able to descend faster is not an advantage in the abovementioned case
7. $200 or more for blades alone is a lot of money
8. Surface swimming with blades stiff enough to really make a big difference fon vertical drops is likely to be a PITA, at least for most

Now, if our inshore ocean fauna was more like what you can find in Baja, i.e. big ass groupers that hole up at 60'+, it would be a different story. Then again, as many as 90% of spearos on this board would probably be automatically DQ'ed from this sort of heroic freediving, whether their fins were crafted and enchancted by the elves of Rivendale or not. And this, if not by a lack of fitness for the task, than by the threats of their nagging, worrisome wives.

Sarcasm and humor aside, I hope that was helpful. Lastly, not sure what your foot size is, but you might check these out in a 4/5 hardness:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Captain-Nemo...item258cab629a
Gotta disagree with all of this. Here's some things you're forgetting:

1: 200 dollars more for carbons pays for itself when you can dive twice as long with half the fatigue (which you can,) probably pays for itself on your first two/three day dive trip

2: 200 dollars more than pays for itself when you can swim significantly faster with less energy burned. You'll know what I mean by "more than pays for itself" next time you suddenly find yourself in a sticky situation in less than ideal weather and you blast out of the danger zone with four swift kicks wondering WTF would have happened if I still had my plastics

3: 200 dollars more than pays for itself when you have more fun diving, dive longer, diver safer.

Speed, power, less fatigue, safer... it's a no brainer. If you're going to buy a nice piece of gear, nice carbon fins should be at or near the top of the list IMO. I got my money's worth out of them in a freakin month.
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:37 PM   #21
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

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Originally Posted by courtmichael View Post
do you used them for shore dives? or just boat dives?
mostly shore dives and off the kayak
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Old 07-03-2014, 12:19 AM   #22
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

I am really sorry to say it but from what i read above it seems like many of you guys have been buying the wrong fins and continue to be using the wrong fins.
The Leaderfin carbon stereoblades waves same blades that Mako started selling now are not pure carbon blades but fiberglass mix. Nothing new and nothing exciting. Shops have been selling these blades for close to 5 years now. I sell same blades and i will say it they are far from being a descent blade. If you are looking to get this blade stick to the fiberglass and save your money. They have close to same performance with a Leaderfin fiberglass.
A good carbon blade will completely blow your minds away. The blade is so much more important than your gun since very often your own life will depend on this single piece of equipment. But go ahead and spend $300-$2000 on a kick ass gun and buy the $80 blades. Heck Walmart has a nice set for $15 and will probably be $12 on the 4th of July.

Here you go read and learn:

http://www.spearboard.com/showthread...hlight=bleutec

James: If you ever come down my way i will let you borrow my blades for the day. It will completely change your perspective. I guaranty that.

Petros
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Old 07-03-2014, 01:16 AM   #23
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

Let's not forget that his budget its $300 bucks.... and he was asking for the best choice... so .... can somebody jump in and say.... "you should get this finds" ???? Will really help him and many others like me,to choose a good set of fins for that price....
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Old 07-03-2014, 02:10 AM   #24
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

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Originally Posted by LookPointShoot View Post
Gotta disagree with all of this. Here's some things you're forgetting:

1: 200 dollars more for carbons pays for itself when you can dive twice as long with half the fatigue (which you can,) probably pays for itself on your first two/three day dive trip

2: 200 dollars more than pays for itself when you can swim significantly faster with less energy burned. You'll know what I mean by "more than pays for itself" next time you suddenly find yourself in a sticky situation in less than ideal weather and you blast out of the danger zone with four swift kicks wondering WTF would have happened if I still had my plastics

3: 200 dollars more than pays for itself when you have more fun diving, dive longer, diver safer.

Speed, power, less fatigue, safer... it's a no brainer. If you're going to buy a nice piece of gear, nice carbon fins should be at or near the top of the list IMO. I got my money's worth out of them in a freakin month.
Your entire post seems to me a giant assumption that everyone dives, or ought to dive, the way you do. That people go on frequent trips, dive all day long, dive below 30', dive in "dangerous" circumstances, etc. etc.

This is all tenuous at best.

I was writing from the perspective of your average Southern California shorediver. Kudos to you for your badass adventures, but you seem to have ignored the relevant context of my post entirely.
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Old 07-03-2014, 02:11 AM   #25
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

For $300 or less you are limited to fiberglass or fiberglass mix blades and most of them out there are either Leaderfins or Spearmaster no matter what they say on them. Nautilus has a special one made for him but that's about it.
Most companies moved away from fiberglass because it is such an inferior product, unlike what you here people on this board saying.
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Old 07-03-2014, 02:19 AM   #26
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyprus_Spearo View Post
I am really sorry to say it but from what i read above it seems like many of you guys have been buying the wrong fins and continue to be using the wrong fins.
The Leaderfin carbon stereoblades waves same blades that Mako started selling now are not pure carbon blades but fiberglass mix. Nothing new and nothing exciting. Shops have been selling these blades for close to 5 years now. I sell same blades and i will say it they are far from being a descent blade. If you are looking to get this blade stick to the fiberglass and save your money. They have close to same performance with a Leaderfin fiberglass.
A good carbon blade will completely blow your minds away. The blade is so much more important than your gun since very often your own life will depend on this single piece of equipment. But go ahead and spend $300-$2000 on a kick ass gun and buy the $80 blades. Heck Walmart has a nice set for $15 and will probably be $12 on the 4th of July.

Here you go read and learn:

http://www.spearboard.com/showthread...hlight=bleutec

James: If you ever come down my way i will let you borrow my blades for the day. It will completely change your perspective. I guaranty that.

Petros
I don't know, Petros. I spend the majority of my time hunting in water no deeper than 40 feet, max. When going for halibut, which is my favorite fish to hunt, the majority of that time is spent in water between 5 and 15 feet. I am afraid I probably don't have a reasonable use for carbons, and I stick to my guns in saying that most consumptive divers in Southern California don't.

If I dove the islands more often, lived in Baja or made more trips there, targeted deep dwelling game, ever had a WSB tangle up on me at a depth more than 20', or really liked the taste of lingcod enough to want to make 50' drops in search of them . . . then I might change my mind.

Thanks for the offer in either case. When I'm rolling in it one of these days, I'm sure I will make the switch . . . but I'll also probably buy a boat first.
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Old 07-03-2014, 02:29 AM   #27
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

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Originally Posted by frankt View Post
mostly shore dives and off the kayak
Well, if Petros is correct, you can expect to pay upwards of $400 or more for true carbon blades that really perform up to par, as far as carbon blades go. He tends to know his stuff, and I have no reason to question his judgment.

Is it worth it for a shorediver in Southern California?

If money is any consideration at all . . . probably not.

Again, I present to you better than acceptable service at an exceptional price. I think I'm done posting on this thread. My last remark: if you're not already in the habit of diving 30' or deeper on the routine, it seems to me like carbon blades are simply unnecessary, given the price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cressi-Gara-...item56632a9fba
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Old 07-03-2014, 03:17 AM   #28
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

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Originally Posted by jdeirmend View Post
Well, if Petros is correct, you can expect to pay upwards of $400 or more for true carbon blades that really perform up to par, as far as carbon blades go. He tends to know his stuff, and I have no reason to question his judgment.

Is it worth it for a shorediver in Southern California?

If money is any consideration at all . . . probably not.

Again, I present to you better than acceptable service at an exceptional price. I think I'm done posting on this thread. My last remark: if you're not already in the habit of diving 30' or deeper on the routine, it seems to me like carbon blades are simply unnecessary, given the price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cressi-Gara-...item56632a9fba
I do agree that for some people carbons are not that necessary. They do help you stay in the water much longer since you do not waste that much energy on kicking though.
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:37 AM   #29
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

I have to agree with Petros here.

While I do understand his budget, let me help make a point....

Lets talk not diving 30-40 ft. but not diving at all. Get a pair of DiveR CF and you will be able to surface swim for 3 times longer than probably most cheap CF fins, and about 10 times longer than plastic. That means when it is time to actually dive you will have way more energy. You will last way longer each dive trip. Again, to agree with Petros, you spend how much on guns, floats, lines, hours on spearboard, drives to the shore, kayaks, shafts, slip-tips...

If you take this sport serious and get in the water as much as you can than the piece of equipment you should skimp least on is your blades. It sounds like a lot of "you don't know what you don't know."

To the OP, get over to Petros and let him prove it to you, since he so kindly offered.
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Old 07-03-2014, 11:24 AM   #30
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Re: carbon or fiber glass fins?

In the future I'd love to get carbon fiber fins, at the moment I have plastic. CF seems really tough as long as you get a quality pair, which makes me wonder why everyone babies theirs and worries about them on shore dives. They shouldn't break, correct, even if getting nicked up on rocks?
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