Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > The Spearboard Tavern > Politics/Religion Forum

Politics/Religion Forum This special place is for threads that are primarily on political or religious subjects.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 40 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 04-23-2014, 08:27 PM   #31
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 36,378
Re: Corruption in D.C.

For you, Max.

Jesus' message has been lost



Quote:
The Roman State sponsored story goes, "Jesus died for your sins, and thus, you need not do anything else besides accept him as your savior. Any further action on your part is unnecessary."

In reality, Jesus was a non-violent protester of the Roman Empire - regardless if one believes he was of divine descent or not. Evidence points towards his existence.

Jesus was trying to set an example - namely, violence is not necessary to defeat tyranny. Only non-violent means of resistance are required. Jesus' non-violent approach ultimately cost him his life. Was it in vain?

I challenge you to ask anyone the questions, "Is the government too big? Has it overstepped the intentions of the founders?" I predict 99.999% of folks will give an affirmative response. If not, simply ask them, "How much bigger do you suppose the government needs to be?" Their stuttering will serve as your answer.

Jesus attempted to lead by example. In my estimation, he intended that those who followed him would subscribe to and implement any non-violent measure necessary that may mitigate tyrannical overreach - like that he faced as a resident of a Roman occupied territory.

Was, the human, King James divine? Why do you suppose there is a version of the Bible named after him? Was it to bolster State control? Why was separation of church and state a founding principle of the United States? If Obama commissioned a personalized translation of the Bible, would you trust his sincerity? What if his last name were James? Are Jesus' actual words still in tact? Or, have they been muddled by the State over the millennia for purposes of control?

According to the Bible as translated, Jesus once said, "Wherever two or three gather in my name, I am in their midst." This passage suggests an aversion by Jesus towards organized religion. He could have just as well said, "There need not be an official congregation. Where a few gather in my name, there is my church." He realized that preachers are mere mortals - which are subject to great imperfection.

Would Jesus ask of you to rob your neighbor to benefit yourself? Would Jesus ask of you to punish your brethren for actions which did not harm you and were never among your personal interests? Would Jesus ask of you to fund the wholesale killing of Muslims by your government? Would Jesus ask of you to follow any edict by your government - especially if its consequences were harmful towards humanity?...
__________________
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." ~Jefferson
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 06:48 AM   #32
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 62
Posts: 5,641
Re: Corruption in D.C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Thanks Marcus. Read the whole post. A tiny amount of truth there wrapped up in a mountain of error. The author of that post is stunningly ignorant of history, theology, the content of the Bible, and the life and message of Jesus. That post really belongs in the round file.
__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 06:58 AM   #33
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 62
Posts: 5,641
Re: Corruption in D.C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I'm not corrupt and I haven't been born again. I worked for a company once that had a corrupt owner. Left them. It takes a strong person to resist corruption. Only until you've been put to the test will you know.
A friendly question: Have you ever really been put to the test in a meaningful way? Have you ever been in a position of great temptation in that regard?

You say: "It takes a strong person to resist corruption." Assuming you are not corrupt and have such strength, where did you get it? How do you impart it to others so they will not be corrupt?

In a word, how do you propose to reduce the number of corrupt people in the world?

By mere moralistic exhortation?
__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 11:11 AM   #34
HARVESTER
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,425
Re: Corruption in D.C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star View Post
A friendly question: Have you ever really been put to the test in a meaningful way? Have you ever been in a position of great temptation in that regard?

You say: "It takes a strong person to resist corruption." Assuming you are not corrupt and have such strength, where did you get it? How do you impart it to others so they will not be corrupt?

In a word, how do you propose to reduce the number of corrupt people in the world?

By mere moralistic exhortation?
A good question with no easy answers.

I can choose to avoid corruption as I grow older, with some marketable experience/skills under my belt, but younger people with young families to feed probably find it a bit more difficult.

I too have quit 100k jobs based on moral issues. Now I finally think I'm in the right place. I'm helping a large food operation feed people who truly need help. I'm not going to be rich but I feel like my life is being enriched...

This isn't Gov cheese work for the most part - it's private sector funded community charity and the money/gets spent with complete transparency. The people we serve do not abuse our hand out/up either.
HARVESTER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 11:34 AM   #35
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 36,378
Re: Corruption in D.C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star View Post
A friendly question: Have you ever really been put to the test in a meaningful way? Have you ever been in a position of great temptation in that regard?

You say: "It takes a strong person to resist corruption." Assuming you are not corrupt and have such strength, where did you get it? How do you impart it to others so they will not be corrupt?

In a word, how do you propose to reduce the number of corrupt people in the world?

By mere moralistic exhortation?
No, I haven't ever been in such a position but I believe it's because I never let myself get that far.
I believe my strength comes from my upbringing. My family is of strong moral character. Strong family bonds that teach proper morals and communicating those morals to others is my way.
__________________
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." ~Jefferson
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 05:44 PM   #36
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 62
Posts: 5,641
Re: Corruption in D.C.

Thanks Harvester and Marcus. I agree, stable homes where strong family moral values are being taught does help build good character in children so they are less likely to give into the temptations of corruption.

I am thankful that I had such a home to grow up in. My parents taught me right from wrong, but never provided an existential basis as to why something was right and why it was wrong - it was just that way because they said so.

My sister utterly rejected their values and became the worst of left wing liberals, because why should what my father said be any more right than what my sister said - after all, they were both humans, and why should one human be able to tell another human what to believe and how to act?

I may very well have gone down that same path, had I not found in the Bible and Christianity not only a standard of right and wrong provided, but also an existential reason why they were right and wrong - that reason being because God said so, not because some mere man like myself said so.

As humans, we need a higher authority than ourselves to appeal to, and a higher standard than our own self invented principles to live by, and God provides them both.

Without that higher standard and authority, we just wind up squabbling among ourselves as to who is right and who is wrong, and no real existential basis for deciding the answer.
__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 06:03 PM   #37
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 62
Posts: 5,641
Re: Corruption in D.C.

A further comment - some will respond, that Natural Law informs us of a universal right and wrong to which we may all appeal. Natural Law is defined as those social principles that when practiced, maximize human happiness, freedom, and prosperity, and minimize human misery, suffering, and conflict.

Natural Law is discovered by observing over the centuries what structures and public policies and laws best produce the above described outcomes in human societies.

Out of such observations all conclude that lying and stealing and murder and the strong oppressing the weak are wrong, and honesty and sound property rights and the protection of life and liberty are right. The results prove it.

Welcome to the Ten Commandments and Biblical morality. Natural Law is nothing more then the observation that Biblical law and morality is what is right and what works when it is implemented, and leads us to the conclusion that God knows better than we do how the human race functions best.

So, I propose that we investigate what God says about how we humans are to function, and bow to his wisdom, and understand His remedy for overcoming our fallenness whereby we hurt one another, which is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 06:35 PM   #38
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 36,378
Re: Corruption in D.C.

What say you of strong moral people who've never been exposed to the bible?
__________________
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." ~Jefferson
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 06:52 PM   #39
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 62
Posts: 5,641
Re: Corruption in D.C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
What say you of strong moral people who've never been exposed to the bible?
I like them. I am really glad they are around. I think they get Natural Law. They are half way there. They just need to go the next logical step and acknowledge the God who made those laws and seek reconciliation with God through repentance of their sins and faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

This life is not all there is to consider. Life after death is way more important, and strong morality isn't going to get you there. Faith in Christ will. And in the next life, there will be NO corruption of any kind, and no corrupt people of any kind. Just the kind of place you would want to live, Marcus, and something you will never have in this world with all of its sinfulness.

I don't expect things to ever be right in this world. I expect everything to be right in the next. Want to come along?
__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 07:25 PM   #40
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 36,378
Re: Corruption in D.C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star View Post
I like them. I am really glad they are around. I think they get Natural Law. They are half way there. They just need to go the next logical step and acknowledge the God who made those laws and seek reconciliation with God through repentance of their sins and faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

This life is not all there is to consider. Life after death is way more important, and strong morality isn't going to get you there. Faith in Christ will. And in the next life, there will be NO corruption of any kind, and no corrupt people of any kind. Just the kind of place you would want to live, Marcus, and something you will never have in this world with all of its sinfulness.

I don't expect things to ever be right in this world. I expect everything to be right in the next. Want to come along?
Meh...if I'm punished for not having blind faith in something that has no absolute proof then IMO, god is a megalomaniac that doesn't deserve my love. IMO, a good god wouldn't test a person's belief in such fashion. What's the harm in reveling himself?
I have no ill will to anybody that does believe though. Believe what you want. As long as your kind to me, I'll reciprocate and I won't denigrate you for your beliefs. It's all good.
__________________
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." ~Jefferson
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 07:58 PM   #41
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 62
Posts: 5,641
Re: Corruption in D.C.

Not to prolong the religious discussion on a political thread - but God has revealed Himself - in conscience, in creation, in coming to earth in the person of Christ, and in the Bible. That is an extraordinary amount of self-revelation of God on His part. I can't imagine that you managed to miss the obvious evidence that there is a God.

As for kindness and good will, you can always count on that out of me.

Thanks for the discussion.
__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 09:40 PM   #42
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 36,378
Re: Corruption in D.C.

Just another brick in the wall...


U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Hear NDAA Legal Challenge, Allowing President and Military to Arrest and Detain Americans


Quote:
For Immediate Release: April 29, 2014 - U.S. Supreme Court Refuses to Hear NDAA Legal Challenge, Allowing President and Military to Arrest and Detain Americans Indefinitely Without Due Process

WASHINGTON, D.C. — In refusing to hear a legal challenge to the indefinite detention provision of the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 (NDAA), the United States Supreme Court has affirmed that the President and the U.S. military can arrest and indefinitely detain individuals, including American citizens. By denying without comment a petition for review in Hedges v. Obama, the high court not only passed up an opportunity to overturn its 1944 Korematsu v. United States ruling allowing for the internment of Japanese-Americans in concentration camps, but also let stand a lower court ruling empowering the President to use “all necessary and appropriate force” to indefinitely detain persons associated with or “suspected” of aiding terrorist organizations. In weighing in on the case before the lower court, attorneys for The Rutherford Institute challenged the Obama administration’s claim that the NDAA does not apply to American citizens, arguing that the NDAA’s language is so unconstitutionally broad and vague as to open the door to arrests and indefinite detentions for speech and political activity that might be critical of the government.

“Once again, the U.S. Supreme Court has shown itself to be an advocate for the government, no matter how illegal its action, rather than a champion of the Constitution and, by extension, the American people,” said John W. Whitehead, president of The Rutherford Institute and author of A Government of Wolves: The Emerging American Police State. “No matter what the Obama administration may say to the contrary, actions speak louder than words, and history shows that the U.S. government is not averse to locking up its own citizens for its own purposes. What the NDAA does is open the door for the government to detain as a threat to national security anyone viewed as a troublemaker. According to government guidelines for identifying domestic extremists—a word used interchangeably with terrorists, that technically applies to anyone exercising their First Amendment rights in order to criticize the government.”...
__________________
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." ~Jefferson
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 10:09 AM   #43
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 36,378
Re: Corruption in D.C.

Big Brother is Coming To Your Brokerage Account
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...kerage-account

Quote:
In the midst of the financial crisis, our “leaders” had a choice. They could’ve done what most Americans wanted, which was allow failing firms to fail and permit the chips to fall where they may. In contrast, our “leaders” settled on trillion dollar bailouts with zero strings attached for the criminals who destroyed the nation’s economy. At that point, the American people would’ve been at least somewhat satisfied if the rule of law was applied to the banksters, and those who deserved to go to jail were locked up. As we all know by now, the Justice Department decided to create a special “Too Big To Jail” untouchable class, and nobody was held accountable for anything. Once again, our “leadership” could’ve look at the situation honestly and responded appropriately. Rather, they doubled down on corruption and criminality and now nobody trusts anything. We don’t trust the Presidency, the Congress, the intelligence agencies, the banks, the financial system, the courts, the Federal Reserve, or any institutions at all. We certainly don’t trust Democrats and Republicans. In fact, millennials in particular have given up all trust in everything. They don’t even trust Jay-z anymore, which I suppose is what happens when you prance around with Warren Buffett and flash illuminati signs 24/7. This is how society breaks down.

Moving along, with confidence in “the system” already in the gutter by summer 2013, Edward Snowden released a bombshell of information on illegal government spying. It confirmed what so many of us had been saying for years, but had been dismissed pejoratively by the mainstream as “conspiracy theorists.” Once again, our “leaders” had a choice. Take the difficult steps and offer real reform, or merely pretend nothing really happened and defend the practices at all costs. Once again, they chose the latter. Just as no bankers were jailed for the financial crisis, no intelligence operatives were jailed for illegal spying. In fact, nothing at all has happened to James Clapper for perjuring himself in front of Congress...
__________________
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." ~Jefferson
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 01:09 PM   #44
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 62
Posts: 5,641
Re: Corruption in D.C.

Equal justice under the law is pretty much a joke. There is one kind of justice for the politically connected, and another for the rest of us. There were dozens of people sitting in jail at the same time for the same kind of perjury that Bill Clinton committed, and yet he not only didn't go to jail for felony lying under oath, he was allowed to remain in office by the senate after being impeached for it.

If I commit felony perjury - I go to jail. If the President commits felony perjury - no jail.

Go figure.

And as for the rest of the article - Those are all practices that anybody who reads their brokerage statements each month could easily catch anyway. No need for Big Brother to watch my account for me.
__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2014, 07:11 PM   #45
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 36,378
Re: Corruption in D.C.

IRS Audited Tea Party Donors Ten Times More Often Than Regular Americans

Quote:
When the IRS was targeting conservative groups seeking tax exempt status for special scrutiny, they demanded the list of donors supporting those groups in 17 cases. Despite assurances from the agency that the lists had been destroyed, a search requested by Congress revealed that at least 3 lists had survived.

And of the donors on those lists, fully 10% of the individuals had been audited.
The rate of audits for ordinary Americans is about 1%.

Now, the House Ways and Means Oversight Committee is demanding that the Government Accountability Office investigate the IRS to see why so many Tea Party donors were audited...
...and yet nobody has been held accountable. These corrupt aholes lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc...with no consequences.
__________________
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." ~Jefferson
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:01 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com