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Diving Safety, Accidents and Incidents Post here to discuss accidents, incidents, ideas, gear, or anything else to improve spearfishing safety. Memorials and condolences threads should be placed in that separate forum.

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Old 06-18-2011, 09:20 AM   #1
Sonofasailor
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Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

After doing some reading, and hearing stories about people losing/chipping teeth from the gun smacking them in the face - I'm curious how many people on here that this has actually happened to. Chipped mask, bloody lip, broken nose, broken or missing teeth, broken ego etc...lets hear it.

Alright, I'll go first. The day before my 21st birthday I went out of Deerfield Beach for mini-season and to shoot some fish. Up until that point, I had shot my gun, and learned how to brace properly for the recoil. This time though, the adrenaline was pretty high because I was shooting my first fish. In that surge of adrenaline, the need to brace must have slipped my mind because next thing I knew it felt like I just got punched in the mouth. After realizing that my regulator was no longer in my mouth, and feeling the urge to breathe, I quickly located it then began to assess what the damage was. It felt like I was missing 4 of my front teeth, and I quickly signaled my buddies over as I was stringing the hogfish. The fish was stoned, and I felt a little dazed, but my buddies were oblivious to what I was asking them. Quite honestly, I had no idea how to ask someone how many teeth I was missing- my whole mouth was hurting. I kept taking my reg out of my mouth to show them, and they kept giving me the ok signal (they later told me that they just thought I was smiling because I was happy for shooting a fish). After getting right in their face did they finally realize what I was showing them - I chipped off 3/4 of one of my upper front teeth. In the end I was ok, I finished the dive and series of dives over the next few days that we had planned. It could have been worse though, I could have been knocked out. At the time of the incident I was only using 2 of the 3 bands on my gun because it was close and not a big AJ or Cobe.

The worst part was going out to a bar on my 21st birthday with a messed up grill. The best part was that my DAN dive insurance paid for the porcelain veneer that they put over the remaining nub of the tooth. It was kind of funny walking around at school like that too - people definitely treated me differently and I got some interesting looks when I opened my mouth!
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:32 AM   #2
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

Oh man that sucks. I lost half my front tooth one time (not with a speargun) but i feel for you. sure get some looks. Dive safe and yes....Brace the gun!
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Old 06-18-2011, 01:24 PM   #3
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

one time i got a bloody nose from trying to shoot a fish "shotgun" style that was swimming very close to me, trust me it will never happen to you again after it happens once. learning experience for sure
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:29 PM   #4
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

I am luck it has never happened to me. I have knocked my reg out of my mouth shooting to the right and not being squared up behind my gun. It made me remember to brace myself the rest of the trip.

I had a buddy that knocked the back on his teeth enamel off of this front teeth.
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:37 PM   #5
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

hit my nose with my 300RUM when the gun was right out of the factory. Now it does not kick.
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:22 PM   #6
Bill McIntyre
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

A guy I used to know on the Freedivelist lost some front teeth on his first shot with an Alexander Blue Water, and he was a big time body builder.

Another guy on the list gave him some shit about it, and then he split his upper lip open enough so that you could see his front teeth, even if he didn't lose them, with the same model gun.

I had a Riffe Island, and a few times when I didn't have time to lock my elbow and back up the butt with the other hand, it hit my chin so hard that I'm sure I would have lost a tooth if it had been a bit higher.
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:22 PM   #7
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

Reminds me of my friend Dave who has a perfect Scope Scar..

The first time I ever shot a multiband gun that I didn't make, I got hurt.. This was 2O years ago. My friend from Hawaii was visiting and threw me his gun to make a kill shot on a big fish I had speared. I was pretty excited to even fire his gun as it was a Bluewater gun from a major manufacturer and I figured it was going to be special.. I wasn't prepared at all for the Mule Kick that follwed and the butt of the gun pushed right by my hand and nailed me in the ribs literally knocking the wind out of me in 6Oft of water.. not good. Nothing broke, but it was close. Nasty Big Blue Bruise for two weeks.
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Old 06-19-2011, 04:59 AM   #8
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

Holy crap, I am thankful for my gun!

I feel like I have plenty of power but no kick... Not nearly enough kick to hurt myself!
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Old 06-19-2011, 11:44 AM   #9
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

One time in Mexico I was shooting a pargo in a cave and almost knocked myself out. My body was at an awkward angle and I had to shoot perpendicular to me, but the adrenaline didn't allow me to think clearly and brace my gun. The recoil hit me in the chin so hard I had a bump there for weeks. Pretty embarrassing mistake.
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:09 PM   #10
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

I didnt think SG's recoiled... I shot a 110 with one band for the first time on thursday, and it was like shooting a short barreled 22LR. And Im a beginner, so i wasnt used to bracing or anything.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:20 PM   #11
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

A rig gun with a 72"long 3/8" shaft thrown hard enough to penetrate clear through 18" of fish skull will bury a hardened steel tip about 1/2" deep into a steel rig leg if hit squarely. It will also recoil about like a 10 Ga full choke single barrel shogun even if the shaft clears the gun..

I know of at least one Helldiver with broken teeth, and he kept diving after he broke them. Quite a story if you ever get a chance to hear it.

Shooting any gun in a shallow hole from too close can do that dental re-arrangement as the entire band energy comes to meet you in the form of the gun butt, as will shooting a large fish closer than the length of the shaft, but not quite as bad as having the shaft hitting a dead stop of rock or steel before the shaft clears.

Basic physics of a shaft that clears the gun says that M(gun & portion of shooter's body involved)*V^2 = M(shaft)*V(shaft)^2. The trick comes in increasing the mass of the shooter and entrained water mass involved in the recoil.

Over the decades I've busted lips and bruised my nose a few times with gun recoil. Generally this comes from being in a hurry and either not thinking or not taking an extra split second to setup the shot. Even shooting a fish in a hole can be done with a long gun, but you need to de-cock it significantly. Just use the appropriate band size, and move back and/or brace yourself accordingly.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:45 PM   #12
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredT View Post
Shooting any gun in a shallow hole from too close can do that dental re-arrangement as the entire band energy comes to meet you in the form of the gun butt, as will shooting a large fish closer than the length of the shaft, but not quite as bad as having the shaft hitting a dead stop of rock or steel before the shaft clears.
Along those lines, while diving Catalina Island about 4 years ago, my dad set his gun down on the bottom while messing with some other part of his gear, when he went to retrieve it, he found that somehow his flopper had engaged inside a small crack and he couldn't get it back out easily. He decided that if he was able to torque on just the shaft without the gun in the way, he'd be able to get it out easier. So without thinking, he just pulled the trigger on his Riffe Comp 3 with all 3 bands loaded. Obviously the shaft had no where to go, so the butt shot back and hit him in the pectoral area of his ribs so hard that he was coughing up blood and having difficulty getting a full breath for about 3 days. A doctor buddy of ours was out at the island at the same time as us and checked him out and said that he had probably cracked a rib and was very lucky with where the butt hit because a bit lower or higher and it could have done some serious damage. Its the sort of thing that we would have made fun of him for being so bone headed, except that it was nearly so serious that it wasn't even funny. Lesson definitely learned about shooting your gun when the shaft has no where to go.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:45 PM   #13
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApneaAddict View Post
Along those lines, while diving Catalina Island about 4 years ago, my dad set his gun down on the bottom while messing with some other part of his gear, when he went to retrieve it, he found that somehow his flopper had engaged inside a small crack and he couldn't get it back out easily. He decided that if he was able to torque on just the shaft without the gun in the way, he'd be able to get it out easier. So without thinking, he just pulled the trigger on his Riffe Comp 3 with all 3 bands loaded. Obviously the shaft had no where to go, so the butt shot back and hit him in the pectoral area of his ribs so hard that he was coughing up blood and having difficulty getting a full breath for about 3 days. A doctor buddy of ours was out at the island at the same time as us and checked him out and said that he had probably cracked a rib and was very lucky with where the butt hit because a bit lower or higher and it could have done some serious damage. Its the sort of thing that we would have made fun of him for being so bone headed, except that it was nearly so serious that it wasn't even funny. Lesson definitely learned about shooting your gun when the shaft has no where to go.
That's wild. It's ironic how the gun becomes the projectile in cases like that. Coughing up blood is never a good thing, but that definitely could have been much worse. I remember reading somewhere on spearboard of a guy whose tuna gun went off and hit him in the torso, killing him. I believe that case was actualy out of the water if I remember right, but I'm sure such things could be just as fatal under water.
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Old 06-24-2011, 04:10 PM   #14
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonofasailor View Post
The worst part was going out to a bar on my 21st birthday with a messed up grill. The best part was that my DAN dive insurance paid for the porcelain veneer that they put over the remaining nub of the tooth. It was kind of funny walking around at school like that too - people definitely treated me differently and I got some interesting looks when I opened my mouth!
Just out of curiosity how did you approach DAN about this incident? I know they cover skin diving accidents but wasn't sure how that would work. Did they make your regular insurance cover the initial costs and they just covered the extra, or what?
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Old 06-27-2011, 05:57 PM   #15
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Re: Missing Front Teeth- Gun Recoil!

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Originally Posted by pirate_diver View Post
Just out of curiosity how did you approach DAN about this incident? I know they cover skin diving accidents but wasn't sure how that would work. Did they make your regular insurance cover the initial costs and they just covered the extra, or what?
Yeh, my dental insurance was considered the primary in that case so they covered to the max allowed for my dental plan. I called DAN the day of the accident and told them exactly what happened and they said it was covered since it was an accident that occurred during a dive. I thought it would be a long shot, but I called just in case and told them the truth. They covered the remainder of my dental bill- which if I recall correctly was close to $2500.
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