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Old 04-10-2018, 07:16 PM   #1
brandon cadalzo
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Bands with no holes

I found this stuff online and it looked interesting. There is absolutely no hole in it at all. You have to take a small drill bit and make your own holes for the wishbones. Just wondering what everyone thought. Itís made by CETMA COMPOSITES.


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Old 04-11-2018, 08:09 AM   #2
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Re: Bands with no holes

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Originally Posted by brandon cadalzo View Post
.... You have to take a small drill bit and make your own holes for the wishbones.....
The issue with latex is one small nick anywhere inside or out in the stretch range, and the band is dramatically weakened. Let us know how it performs.
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:35 AM   #3
brandon cadalzo
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Re: Bands with no holes

Címon no ones ever tried no hole rubber before?! Guess Iím gonna be the guinea pig


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Old 04-16-2018, 12:58 AM   #4
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Re: Bands with no holes

This is a non starter, you just don't want to be drilling into rubber as that creates mini cuts that will immediately grow when the rubber is stretched. There is some zero ID bands around ... that have extremely tiny holes ... so small that they are almost invisible to the naked eye. I have a bunch of that stuff in 14mm and 16mm ... and I would go that way if I want zero ID bands. No need to drill that rubber and with the proper insert it is quite easy to setup with a wishbone.

The zero ID bands perform really well but to be honest, I couldn't tell much difference between the zero ID bands and the small ID bands (performance wise). The main thing is to avoid having water get inside your band cavity by choosing the correct band tying protocol and the correct insert.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:27 AM   #5
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Re: Bands with no holes

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This is a non starter, you just don't want to be drilling into rubber as that creates mini cuts that will immediately grow when the rubber is stretched. There is some zero ID bands around ... that have extremely tiny holes ... so small that they are almost invisible to the naked eye. I have a bunch of that stuff in 14mm and 16mm ... and I would go that way if I want zero ID bands. No need to drill that rubber and with the proper insert it is quite easy to setup with a wishbone.

The zero ID bands perform really well but to be honest, I couldn't tell much difference between the zero ID bands and the small ID bands (performance wise). The main thing is to avoid having water get inside your band cavity by choosing the correct band tying protocol and the correct insert.


Thank you so much for your input! I guess i will apply a small amount of silicone caulk to my inserts to stop any water intrusion.


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Old 04-17-2018, 12:39 AM   #6
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Re: Bands with no holes

To prevent water intrusion, the easiest way is to use the correct insert and just use silicone grease. This creates a lubricating seal very similar to a reverse "O" ring and works extremely well.

I have put a lot of work into developing the perfect insert and I think I have one that works extremely well. Of the 1000 or so inserts that have been out there the feedback has been 100% positive. I will see if I can put up a video of how I install those inserts ... you can basically install them tool free and I have even setup a full band set successfully on a moving boat with zero tools (just used my dive knife to cut off excess line).

It does seem like not much thought goes into creating an insert, but as I found out, there actually is. I believe a lot of people that have poor band performance is due to water infiltrating inside the bands. You need to stop that. Also excess bulk causes the bands to not sit nicely ... and I have seen some pictures of some pretty horrific injuries of people that accidentally stabbed themselves with needle pliers trying to insert a wishbone. This is all not necessary!
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:38 AM   #7
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Re: Bands with no holes

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
To prevent water intrusion, the easiest way is to use the correct insert and just use silicone grease. This creates a lubricating seal very similar to a reverse "O" ring and works extremely well.

I have put a lot of work into developing the perfect insert and I think I have one that works extremely well. Of the 1000 or so inserts that have been out there the feedback has been 100% positive. I will see if I can put up a video of how I install those inserts ... you can basically install them tool free and I have even setup a full band set successfully on a moving boat with zero tools (just used my dive knife to cut off excess line).

It does seem like not much thought goes into creating an insert, but as I found out, there actually is. I believe a lot of people that have poor band performance is due to water infiltrating inside the bands. You need to stop that. Also excess bulk causes the bands to not sit nicely ... and I have seen some pictures of some pretty horrific injuries of people that accidentally stabbed themselves with needle pliers trying to insert a wishbone. This is all not necessary!
I'd love to see your inserts. Incidentally, I just cut a few on my little lathe the other day and downsized them a tad from the plastic inserts I bought in the US. I reduced the outer diameter of the "mushroom head" by 1mm and the stalk by a bit more but I felt, for small ID bands, I could have gone even smaller. It did make a nice difference in inserting them.
Actually, I haven't yet seen any inserts that seem to be designed for small ID bands. Everything out there seems to be aimed at 3mm ID bands and they end up bulkier than they have to.
I reckon the main parameter to get right is the difference in diameter between the head and the stalk. I wouldn't be surprised if you could go all the way down to 5-6mm head and 2mm stalk or something thereabouts.
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Old 04-17-2018, 03:51 AM   #8
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Re: Bands with no holes

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
I have put a lot of work into developing the perfect insert and I think I have one that works extremely well. Of the 1000 or so inserts that have been out there the feedback has been 100% positive. I will see if I can put up a video of how I install those inserts ... you can basically install them tool free and I have even setup a full band set successfully on a moving boat with zero tools (just used my dive knife to cut off excess line).
Hi Majd, I know I have seen some pics of your experiments with the inserts somewhere, but I can't find them now? Care to share some recent pics?

Which of the "standard" inserts on the market do you guys think work best?
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Old 04-17-2018, 03:44 PM   #9
brandon cadalzo
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Re: Bands with no holes

Please show us what kind of inserts you use and where we can get them? Iíve been using those little plastic ones from Petros and i Love em.


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Old 04-18-2018, 01:44 AM   #10
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Re: Bands with no holes

I got about 30 inserts that are available commercially and decided to make an insert that improves on them. Main priority was to make installing an insert "tool free" so that you could make a band using only some kevlar line and your dive knife to cut excess line. I also wanted to drop the "ball" part of the insert to the absolute minimum so that it would not bulk up the bands and would still not slip whether you used large ID bands or small ID bands. I also wanted to absolutely prevent water intrusion in the bands and have the insert where it would be small and light enough where it won't hurt the front of the gun when fired. And of course I wanted to have the inserts where they were easy to change out the wishbone line ... thus allowing use of 1.9 or even 1.7mm thin line (better performance due to less drag in the water).

I had to make way more than I needed of these inserts to get them produced, and the excess couple of hundred I sent to Mario as a gift. So you can buy them from him and I highly recommend them. You need to install them using just some silicone grease to put the insert in ... then the shape of the stem will use that grease on the inside to make a perfect reverse "O" ring seal. The stem is not straight but expands slightly before it reaches the end ball ... this allows for a much smaller end ball and still holds. The SS will break before the end ball will slip off ... it is highly effective. Also the more you pull the better the seal ... so no water is ever going to get in. The tie end ball has a chamfered cut to prevent the line from cutting ... and it really is easy to change out the sacrificial wishbone line. I doubt many people using them realize how much thought was put into making them ... but in the end it is how they work that counts. I have yet to hear of one person complaining that they did not work well except for maybe some that would prefer the tie in hole to be larger so that they can use thicker wishbone line. I think I had made the hole as 2.2mm or 2.5mm as I never use more than 1.9mm line as wishbone cord ... but some prefer thicker wishbone cord and thus it might be difficult to put in that thick line in there.
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:14 AM   #11
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Re: Bands with no holes

Nice!!! Pics??
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:57 PM   #12
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Re: Bands with no holes

Thanks a bunch Majd,

Ordered a bunch from Mario today. Wonít have the opportunity till the summer so Iíll get back with my thought by then!

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