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Old 12-27-2017, 04:11 PM   #31
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

Quality Hull, nice size, good pick.
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Old 12-29-2017, 12:22 AM   #32
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

I've the same boat as Moose and doing the same (albeit not as pretty). Now that you've settled on a Bertram hull, understand the deep-vee effect on loading, ride and drift. You cannot load them too heavy. The bow can stuff in following seas. They trim, they burn fuel, they roll, but are awesome sea-boats. Decks are usually soft by now, but stringers should be okay. They really paid attention to lamination. Beautiful boat and best to you -sometimes working on them is as fun/rewarding as using them.
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Old 12-29-2017, 08:32 AM   #33
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

Those older Bertram’s are great hulls. Both Moose and Harvester made good points on weight and weight distribution. After looking at your drawing, I doubt you will be able to place that many scuba tanks that far forward as it will likely make the vessel quite bow heavy. If you place too much weight forward of the “break out point” of the hull, the boat rides too deep in the water and this will adversely affect speed and fuel efficiency. Plus like Harvester said, forward weight may cause your bow to bury in a following sea and this can be very dangerous. Older Bertram’s can be susceptible to this problem so you may want to be very flexible in your design options for tank placement. Give me a call and I will tell you a design for your fish box and tank storage that may help you.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:10 PM   #34
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

Dont let all these fuddy duddies mess with you, they are forgetting you are putting the heaviest parts 2-3 aft of where they were and normal tanks only weigh 40lbs so 4-5 equals 1 person in my world. If you are concerned do a float test after installing bracket and motors. That bertram is a bad dude, rides great but will never be fast. I would look into 115's if you can obtain cruise @ 75% throttle fully loaded. My biggest concern would be fuel capacity, I am thinking fuel mpg of 1.5 maybe a little better but always plan on worst case.
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Old 12-29-2017, 09:42 PM   #35
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

Thanks for the insight fellas. Sometimes it's good not to be first and fortunately there are a number of people with build threads that have gone through the trial and error process on this hull.

I realize this boat will not be a speed demon, but I'm more interested in a nice ride in while everyone else is getting pounded.

Weight is going to be a consideration, but given the fact the factory offered this hull in a heavy fiberglass flybridge option with twin v8 v drives in the belly, settees, sinks and cabinets, etc, I think I can keep her well under weight, especially by using Coosa and Nidacore, where appropriate.

Here's an interesting write up on weight regarding this hull.

http://www.cssims.com/25%20Bertram%2...t%20Budget.htm

I've also heard these hulls had a tendency to be light in the bow and would bounce a bit. Consequently, the solution was to add concrete or lead in the anchor locker.

If you like boat porn, here's an awesome B25 project build.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...storation.html

This one came out very nice and provides some inspiration. No fish box though. Maybe my design is too optimistic.
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Old 12-30-2017, 02:12 AM   #36
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuzzA View Post
Thanks for the insight fellas. Sometimes it's good not to be first and fortunately there are a number of people with build threads that have gone through the trial and error process on this hull.

I realize this boat will not be a speed demon, but I'm more interested in a nice ride in while everyone else is getting pounded.

Weight is going to be a consideration, but given the fact the factory offered this hull in a heavy fiberglass flybridge option with twin v8 v drives in the belly, settees, sinks and cabinets, etc, I think I can keep her well under weight, especially by using Coosa and Nidacore, where appropriate.

Here's an interesting write up on weight regarding this hull.

http://www.cssims.com/25%20Bertram%2...t%20Budget.htm

I've also heard these hulls had a tendency to be light in the bow and would bounce a bit. Consequently, the solution was to add concrete or lead in the anchor locker.

If you like boat porn, here's an awesome B25 project build.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...storation.html

This one came out very nice and provides some inspiration. No fish box though. Maybe my design is too optimistic.
Just FYI, V drives sit aft like I/Os. Big difference from straight-shaft inboards. The Fuddies aren't trying to be wet blankets. Just sharing some experience/many trips on smaller berties. Enjoy your boat and best wishes.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:02 AM   #37
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuzzA View Post
Thanks for the insight fellas. Sometimes it's good not to be first and fortunately there are a number of people with build threads that have gone through the trial and error process on this hull.

I realize this boat will not be a speed demon, but I'm more interested in a nice ride in while everyone else is getting pounded.

Weight is going to be a consideration, but given the fact the factory offered this hull in a heavy fiberglass flybridge option with twin v8 v drives in the belly, settees, sinks and cabinets, etc, I think I can keep her well under weight, especially by using Coosa and Nidacore, where appropriate.

If you like boat porn, here's an awesome B25 project build.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...storation.html

This one came out very nice and provides some inspiration. No fish box though. Maybe my design is too optimistic.
That Hull Truth thread was great info. Are you planning to do a similar tear out and rebuild? If so, you will have the opportunity to remove weight by using composite materials and that will help. As far as your design possibly being too optimistic......it’s just too early to know for sure. To avoid “re-do” situations, you could finish the hull, install the engines, launch the boat and run it. Then load weight onto the boat that is moveable fore and aft and see how she handles the weight. Coolers or plastic drums filled with water work well for load testing.

That Hull Truth rebuild resulted in a beautiful vessel. However, his design and weight distribution was quite different than what you are planning. If I were about to invest the kind of time and money in a rebuild like you are about to undertake, I would do everything possible to make sure the end result has a very high likelihood of meeting my needs and expectations.

When you decide to tackle a project like this, you will make mistakes along the way and that’s to be expected. It will cost more and take more time than you estimated and that’s ok too, it’s normal. However once you are finished, you will have a great sense of pride and satisfaction that you built this boat and that feeling is what made the whole process worth it. Good luck on your build and please keep us posted on your progress.
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Last edited by Spear One; 12-30-2017 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:25 AM   #38
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spear One View Post
That Hull Truth thread was great info. Are you planning to do a similar tear out and rebuild? If so, you will have the opportunity to remove weight by using composite materials and that will help. As far as your design possibly being too optimistic......itís just too early to know for sure. To avoid ďre-doĒ situations, you could finish the hull, install the engines, launch the boat and run it. Then load weight onto the boat that is moveable fore and aft and see how she handles the weight. Coolers or plastic drums filled with water work well for load testing.

That Hull Truth rebuild resulted in a beautiful vessel. However, his design and weight distribution was quite different than what you are planning. If I were about to invest the kind of time and money in a rebuild like you are about to undertake, I would do everything possible to make sure the end result has a very high likelihood of meeting my needs and expectations.

When you decide to tackle a project like this, you will make mistakes along the way and thatís to be expected. It will cost more and take more time than you estimated and thatís ok, itís normal. However once you are finished, you will have a great sense of pride and satisfaction that you built this boat and that feeling is what made the whole process worth it. Good luck on your build and please keep us posted on your progress.
Thanks, Kevin. I agree with your assessments. I plan a deliberate and methodical approach and am not afraid to ask for help where I am unsure. My illustration is a starting point which will no doubt change throughout this process.

The first step is to get that bottom paint off and begin prepping the exterior of the hull.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:54 AM   #39
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuzzA View Post
Thanks, Kevin. I agree with your assessments. I plan a deliberate and methodical approach and am not afraid to ask for help where I am unsure. My illustration is a starting point which will no doubt change throughout this process. The first step is to get that bottom paint off and begin prepping the exterior of the hull.
Dan McMahon and K Moose have a wealth of knowledge on boat rebuilding and refit. Tapping into that knowledge will help minimize mistakes. Good Luck!

PS, make sure you have a high quality respirator with a charcoal filter and make sure you have a couple replacement prefilters and charcoal filters. Your lungs will really appreciate it. The rebuilding process involves contact with a lot of really toxic dust and fumes.
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Old 12-30-2017, 04:42 PM   #40
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

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Originally Posted by Spear One View Post
Dan McMahon and K Moose have a wealth of knowledge on boat rebuilding and refit. Tapping into that knowledge will help minimize mistakes. Good Luck!

PS, make sure you have a high quality respirator with a charcoal filter and make sure you have a couple replacement prefilters and charcoal filters. Your lungs will really appreciate it. The rebuilding process involves contact with a lot of really toxic dust and fumes.
Once you start tearing things up, consider working with epoxy if you can afford it. It's way more forgiving in terms of temp, pot-life (in small batches) and fixing mistakes because it tends not to kick too abruptly. If you use polyester, research the effect of wax, cold layup and how buildup need to accommodate multiple layers of glass (wet layup vs. cured, heat effect etc.).

BTW, I'm also doing a complete build. Let's share. I definitely need schooling on lightweight construction. Being a dinosaur, I grew up working on wood and heavy projects that gave strength and durability, not necessarily svelte, fast efficient runners.

<a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/user/shaver2098/media/IMG_0026_zpsz91w0ggy.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3/shaver2098/IMG_0026_zpsz91w0ggy.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0026_zpsz91w0ggy.jpg"/></a>


<a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/user/shaver2098/media/P3130085.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3/shaver2098/th_P3130085.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo P3130085.jpg" style=""></a>

<a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/user/shaver2098/media/P1200527.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3/shaver2098/th_P1200527.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo P1200527.jpg" style=""></a>

Last edited by HARVESTER; 12-30-2017 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 12-30-2017, 05:27 PM   #41
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

James, I assume rear seating will be beanbags?

BTW - how do you think the hull will handle our wonderful short-wave period 1-3 foot chop?

Last edited by grey2112; 12-30-2017 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 12-30-2017, 06:28 PM   #42
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARVESTER View Post
Once you start tearing things up, consider working with epoxy if you can afford it. It's way more forgiving in terms of temp, pot-life (in small batches) and fixing mistakes because it tends not to kick too abruptly. If you use polyester, research the effect of wax, cold layup and how buildup need to accommodate multiple layers of glass (wet layup vs. cured, heat effect etc.).

BTW, I'm also doing a complete build. Let's share. I definitely need schooling on lightweight construction. Being a dinosaur, I grew up working on wood and heavy projects that gave strength and durability, not necessarily svelte, fast efficient runners.

<a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/user/shaver2098/media/IMG_0026_zpsz91w0ggy.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3/shaver2098/IMG_0026_zpsz91w0ggy.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0026_zpsz91w0ggy.jpg"/></a>


<a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/user/shaver2098/media/P3130085.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3/shaver2098/th_P3130085.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo P3130085.jpg" style=""></a>

<a href="http://s52.photobucket.com/user/shaver2098/media/P1200527.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3/shaver2098/th_P1200527.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo P1200527.jpg" style=""></a>
You and me both.

I will definitely update my progress here.
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Old 12-30-2017, 06:42 PM   #43
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

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James, I assume rear seating will be beanbags?

BTW - how do you think the hull will handle our wonderful short-wave period 1-3 foot chop?
Yes, bean bags. They're cheap and I couldn't make a more comfortable seat for the money. And we can move them the hell out of the way.

I think she'll cut through it like butter. I'm expecting her to turn "iffy" days into, "let's go!" At least that's what all my research suggests. Original deep vee, strong heavy hull. She'll probably suck and be tipsy in the drift or anchored, but we don't drift or anchor when diving so really overnight on anchor may be a little less than ideal, but that's part of the deal with boats, right. Gotta give something up to get something in return.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:32 AM   #44
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

So, I'm having the engines, outdrives and fuel tanks pulled this week. I got a few quotes and most were really high, but one came in so cheap it would cost me more to buy chain hoists and tie up everybody's time.

If anyone knows someone looking for Alpha One outrdrives, I have a pair in clean, but unknown condition.

I will pull the hardtop and start prepping to do the transom. Then we'll start laying her out.

One nice positive of an old boat is when you register her you can claim it's an antique and only pay about $8/ year. My trailer will cost me more than the boat every year.
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:09 PM   #45
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Re: Project Boat Discussion: Tips, Ideas, Mistakes...

Only thing is to be antique registered it has to be powered by original style engine and year engine as boat.
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