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Old 11-11-2016, 08:29 PM   #1
popgun pete
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Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

I was looking for some info on the products of Demetrio Morabito (Mordem), namely his loading assistance tool for band guns. Cable guns, or cable rollerguns, don't have any band ferrules or tied band ends to hang onto, so T-Handle hooks are used (single hook like a hessian sack or bag slinging hook) to snag each wishbone and drag it back to the respective shaft notch or tab. However I distinctly remember that "Mordem" had a double prong hook on a bar similar to this sketch that I just cobbled together (from imperfect memory), that was previously used to haul powerful bands back by snagging onto the metal wishbones (one at a time of course!).

A web search in Italian finally found this reference:
http://www.apneamagazine.com/caricam...assistenza-742

Unfortunately the Mordem website has long since disappeared and all the info on "Mordem" spearfishing products appears to have been stowed in a container hidden behind that similar one marked "hen's teeth".

Anyway I thought that the "apneamagazine" reference may be of general interest.
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Old 11-12-2016, 09:03 AM   #2
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Re: Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
I was looking for some info on the products of Demetrio Morabito (Mordem), namely his loading assistance tool for band guns. Cable guns, or cable rollerguns, don't have any band ferrules or tied band ends to hang onto, so T-Handle hooks are used (single hook like a hessian sack or bag slinging hook) to snag each wishbone and drag it back to the respective shaft notch or tab. However I distinctly remember that "Mordem" had a double prong hook on a bar similar to this sketch that I just cobbled together (from imperfect memory), that was previously used to haul powerful bands back by snagging onto the metal wishbones (one at a time of course!).

A web search in Italian finally found this reference:
http://www.apneamagazine.com/caricam...assistenza-742

Unfortunately the Mordem website has long since disappeared and all the info on "Mordem" spearfishing products appears to have been stowed in a container hidden behind that similar one marked "hen's teeth".

Anyway I thought that the "apneamagazine" reference may be of general interest.
those would be great to help small women., disabled people- even lazy people - could use that to load powerful bands on regular guns - not just rollerguns
It's so simple that it's great.
Thanks for sharing!
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Old 11-12-2016, 02:26 PM   #3
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Re: Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

This is the guy you have to thank and this web-page is now the only trace that I can find of him. Hopefully he is recognized on a monument to the spearfishing pioneers somewhere in Italy, as while they are remembered, then so are their major achievements and product innovations in the world of spearfishing.

http://www.apneateam.info/ArchivioAI...1/Default.aspx

Spearfishing Pioneer and Manufacturer/Inventor Demetrio Morabito proudly displays his catch in the Halcyon Days of the Sport.
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Old 11-14-2016, 03:38 AM   #4
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Re: Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

Sorry ... but that is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I have tried such a device and the only thing that I could think of was that it made loading a LOT more dangerous. The same applied for the SS hooks that some people are using to load rollers ... way too dangerous. For women or kids that generally don't have the strength to pull thick bands back, a much better solution is to use 2 thin bands. Even 2 x 13mm small ID bands can destroy the performance of a 20mm band at full load.
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Old 11-14-2016, 06:13 AM   #5
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Re: Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
Sorry ... but that is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I have tried such a device and the only thing that I could think of was that it made loading a LOT more dangerous. The same applied for the SS hooks that some people are using to load rollers ... way too dangerous. For women or kids that generally don't have the strength to pull thick bands back, a much better solution is to use 2 thin bands. Even 2 x 13mm small ID bands can destroy the performance of a 20mm band at full load.
Well the device was created before you were born (and maybe me too) and to really know how it was received one would have to take a time machine trip back to that era. Remember that Demetrio Morabito was a very experienced guy and not someone given to dreaming up useless inventions, in fact he manufactured a complete line of equipment for diving and spearfishing. Band rubber would in general have been weaker stuff than we use today, although there would have been variability with some rubber better than others, so I don't know which guns needed one of these loading bar gadgets. However a cable gun has nothing to grab onto bar the cable as there are no ferrules as I said earlier, so that is why this device is being reviewed now, especially with the "Dreamair" cable gun soon to be released onto the market, assuming anyone can actually afford to buy one!

Last edited by popgun pete; 11-14-2016 at 06:34 AM.
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Old 11-14-2016, 08:43 AM   #6
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Re: Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

Relief pegs in shaft, gun on hip to get to peg. Then gun on chest for final pull from peg to notch. Get an open top muzzle for the peg. Wear gloves with dots to prevent slipping out of hand. If more than one rubber go to first notch on first pull.
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Old 11-14-2016, 02:09 PM   #7
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Re: Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

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Originally Posted by sealark View Post
Relief pegs in shaft, gun on hip to get to peg. Then gun on chest for final pull from peg to notch. Get an open top muzzle for the peg. Wear gloves with dots to prevent slipping out of hand. If more than one rubber go to first notch on first pull.
Thanks for that suggestion, but such two-stage loading is well known and what is required for the "Dreamair" will have to be different. An interesting design that had the same basic approach that you are referring to was this one which I described some years back.

"A loading tab to assist drawing the bands back was incorporated on the mid-fifties Champion "Requin Flottante" model. This was the familiar two band Rene Cavalero "Champion Arbalete" (rear handle) with the four socket, screw in band type muzzle, but with a total gun length of 195 cm! The claimed shooting range was 8 metres.

This cannon was loaded by pulling the bands back to a disappearing hook activated by a simple mechanism installed in front of the centre grip handle used for manoeuvring these longer models around. Once you got both bands to that mid-way hook you then summoned your strength for the final pull of each band back to the rear wishbone notches. Releasing the centre grip mechanism allowed the hook to disappear into the barrel so that it would not obstruct the wishbones moving forwards during the shot. The French patent for the gun was applied for in 1954 and published in 1956."

I found the remains of one of these "Requin Flottante" guns in a junk shop, but the rear barrel and centre grip handle were missing. At some time a previous owner, looking for a shorter gun, decided to connect the front barrel directly to the rear grip handle. He also cut the spear down and ground a pencil tip onto the shaft. However the front barrel mounting holes don't duplicate those in the rear and discarded barrel, so the rear grip was not affixed to the barrel in the cut-down gun. He must never have used it as the muzzle still carried the enormously long bands that had once been used to cock a gun with a near 2 metre wishbone draw length. Finding the missing parts was impossible as tracing who had originally owned it and where the gun had been after it had been stupidly vandalized was a complete mystery.

Last edited by popgun pete; 11-14-2016 at 02:30 PM. Reason: additional comment
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Old 11-14-2016, 02:53 PM   #8
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Re: Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

I have been sent a "Mordem" advert, so here it is. No sign of the loading bar unfortunately.
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Old 11-14-2016, 03:05 PM   #9
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Re: Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

And now an old catalog page showing the "Requin Flottante" at the top. I have no idea how many of these enormous guns were sold, but my guess is not many. Note "chargement du relais intermediaire" means via an intermediate hook-up position.
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Old 11-18-2016, 06:37 PM   #10
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Re: Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

Pete,

Attached are a few pictures of the design evolution an Italian gun builder has explored to aid in loading a multi-stage roller.

There is also a block-and-tackle loading assist that was created to load a super tuna gun. Due to the gun's length, the user could not effectively reach the wishbones to grab and pull back. IIRC the gun was on a website called rock-n-fish or similar, but I can't find it now.
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Old 11-18-2016, 08:15 PM   #11
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Re: Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

Thanks for those photos Matt. I conducted some further research on Demetrio Morabito and found his Mordem "Boreal" band gun here: http://www.harpon34.net/ on the first page approximately halfway down the page. Photos were taken by website owner Cyril Malzac.

Check out how you cock the band on this totally "outside the box" "Boreal" band gun that uses a single thick loop of band rubber. Same band cocking idea as you are showing, but the pull bar for cocking is now built-in. As for hydrodynamic drag as this lot plows its way through the water, well I think it would be considerable, but until I saw this bunch of photos this gun was totally unknown to me.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 11-18-2016 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 09-28-2018, 07:04 PM   #12
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Re: Arbalete (band gun) loading assistance devices

I had forgotten this thread until I had just posted about the "Requin Flottante" in another thread when a sense of "Deja Vu" came over me and I conducted a search.

Anyway this seems to be an appropriate place to mention these two load assist devices soon to appear when the "Dreamsair" cable drive speargun is released.

The first loader is a simple and elegant way to cock a long cable drive speargun; the second loader works in much the same way and uses a pulley embedded in each of the wishbone hooks to halve the draw effort, but doubles the draw length so that you still do the same amount of work to cock the gun. That work supplies the energy that will be stored in the gun for the next shot.

You can see the first loader being used here: https://www.facebook.com/infinitengi...896747000/?t=0
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