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Old 12-11-2016, 10:18 AM   #1
Supersnapper
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11/32 shaft question

I have a blue water gun that takes a 11/32 shaft. I have shot it with four 5/8th bands and that there was a lot of recoil. Is the shaft to heavy to use 3 5/8th bands or should I just man up and keep it at four. I locked my elbow with my grip hand and placed my free hand behind the butt, that thing kicked like a mule. Any suggestions? Thanks
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:28 AM   #2
jstiver09
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

What kind of gun?


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Old 12-11-2016, 11:09 AM   #3
Behslayer
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

Are they 5/8" small ID with 1/16" ID? or Standard with 1/8" ID? If they are small ID 16mm that's a lot of Punch.

Are those 4 bands tied Hot? They should be @ 320 or 330%. You can reduce recoil a Little by using 3 bands, but then those 3 bands should be hotter like 370%. It's possible to shoot an 11/32" Shaft using 3 bands.

Try looking at this backwards. How much range do you want. How far away are you going to take the shot? 25' from the tip of the shaft is pretty far. It's not about powering up the gun so it shoots further than you need. It's about deciding how far you are shooting and then backing off your power so that you have less recoil and better accuracy. Recoil is the great robber of range and accuracy so if you can reduce recoil by loosening the bands or removing one band, then you may actually increase your range and accuracy. (seen it happen)

You can reduce Recoil by using a 5/16" Shaft.

I'm not sure how much the gun weighs?

An 11/32" Shaft is Heavy. Some people are way less recoil tolerant than others. It's really amazing the differences between different people. I have some buddies who are super intolerant of recoil and will shoot the same gun with 3 bands than another guy who wants to really max out his power will use 5 bands with and be super accurate and not mind any recoil at all.

Try 3 bands all loaded on the closest tab and use that as a baseline. See if that is acceptable and you are getting good range.

Here are two videos which show some testing using both 3 and 4 bands on 11/32" Shafts. In the first video, my buddy Anthony Dooley in Puerto Rico was using a 170MH Slim, which is not a very heavy gun, he found better range using 3 bands at higher stretch than 4 bands at lower stretch. In the second video from Peter Tylor, he shows using 3 and 4 bands at the same stretch showing a small difference in range in favor of the 4 bands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDjz...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGYZ_n_mIp8

Last edited by Behslayer; 12-11-2016 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:44 PM   #4
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

Thanks for the info. I think I will give a go with 3 bands. I am taking a trip to Puerto Rico and needed some advice. It's a enclosed track, 60in plus wood gun. It's heavy with the shaft loaded. I am not sure about the band Id. It was way easier to load on my chest, but impossible on my hip. It's amazing how much power you loose hip loading those last 5 inches. Damn if my wrist wasn't sore the next day from shooting. Thanks
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:47 PM   #5
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

I watched the Ulusub videos too, but exactly what the recoil is versus what I get is hard to compare. Thanks
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:34 PM   #6
ROBERTO REYES
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

Use softer bands ,more of them, it will kick less, heavy shafts will always kick, but if you practice enough you won't notice it that much and they can really reach for those extremely long shots.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:51 PM   #7
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

take a pic of the gun. 60" is not such a long gun, and unless it's pretty Fat, it might not have the mass a mid handle needs to huck an 11/32" Shaft? Maybe its better suited to 3 bands and a 5/16" Shaft which is a more standard configuration for a Mid Handle that size. Without the shaft, that gun would need to weigh @ 10lbs + to counteract 4 5/8" bands and an 11/32".

When you say it's heavy with the shaft loaded, does that mean it Sinks quickly? To me the platform sounds strange. 60" Mid Handle gun should be okay with 3 bands and 5/16" shaft.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:53 PM   #8
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

Move up to 3/8", then shaft replacement will be a lot simpler. In the old days we all used 3/8" shafts with 5/16" being used in the "economy models". Four bands, but three will do and follow Roberto's advice.

Last edited by popgun pete; 12-11-2016 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 12-11-2016, 05:43 PM   #9
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

Pete, I normally agree with you, but in this case I don't. As shaft diameter goes up. Recoil goes up. There's a big difference in recoil between shooting an 11/32" and a 5/16" Shaft because there's a significant difference in Weight. For example I have two equal length shafts here. 5/16" weighs 625g. 11/32" weighs 750g.

A heavier shaft does have the potential to carry more KE downrange. But. Recoil is the great robber of Range. If you are getting a lot of recoil, with the heavier shaft, and less recoil with the lighter shaft, the lighter shaft may actually have more range because you may be able to control the loss to recoil. Same with Bands. Fewer bands at higher stretch with the same force as more bands at lower stretch will have less recoil.

Band Mass goes up. Recoil goes up.
Band # goes up. Recoil goes up.
Band Stretch % goes up. Recoil goes up.
Shaft Mass goes up. Recoil goes up.
Gun Weight goes up. Recoil goes down.
Period of Force goes up. Perceived Recoil goes down.
Geometry is also a player.
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Old 12-11-2016, 06:00 PM   #10
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

Every gun will have an optimum. what shaft and band combination gives the best performance. there is also a subjective element to this as people have different comfort levels with recoil, mass, and styles of shooting. So really it's every user will have an optimum configuration for a particular gun.
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:28 PM   #11
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

These old guns of mine both use 3/8" shafts, in fact they have never used anything else. What it really boils down to is what does he want to shoot?
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Old 12-12-2016, 05:22 AM   #12
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

If recoil is painful or uncomfortable ... you can be pretty sure that your setup is not good as you will be losing a lot of performance due to recoil. I think all the recoil problems can be fixed design wise, but that is not useful if you already have the gun and are in a remote area. You go to war with the weapons you have rather than the weapons you wish you had. My advise is try this ... before shooting, turn your hand 45 degrees ... this will push recoil into your palm without having to go through the wrist (which is extremely weak). Of course you should still hold the back of the gun with the other hand. It might make shooting accurate more difficult, but with a little practice you can get good enough accuracy for 4 or 5 meter shots on large fish. Give it a try!
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:46 AM   #13
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

I'd really like to see the gun. It's really hard to give advice without complete information. Without seeing that though, using a 5/16 shaft with 3 x 16mm standard bands or 4 x 14mm standard bands should make life a lot easier. To me it really seems like if recoil is an issue, then the gun shouldn't be shooting that shaft.
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:47 AM   #14
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

Well let us ask the questions that should have been asked in the first place. What are you shooting at and what range are you hoping to close to before taking a shot, or is the fish of a species that is curious and will come in to you and check you out? At what speed is the fish going to be swimming at, slow cruise or fast, towards or away and how armored is he in terms of busting through him or are you looking to obtain a hold and play him out?

As you have a Bluewater four bander I assume you are not hunting tiddlers, hence the nature of the prey and the hunting environment are important. Today there seems to be a notion that spearfishermen are William Tell, but in my day we sought to inflict maximum damage rather than shoot an apple off someone's head. Hence results were usually ugly as spear tips often had four cutting edges to rip through the meat. The fish with an eye knocked out and divots of meat missing, it was once said to me that spearfishing was a cruel sport, but so is any activity where hunters aim to devour their prey, it is not like a Sunday School picnic.

One other thing, is that gun ballasted and who made it? These questions are directed at Supersnapper.

Last edited by popgun pete; 12-12-2016 at 01:51 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 12-12-2016, 09:10 AM   #15
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Re: 11/32 shaft question

On a "Bluewater Gun" it's more important to have an optimal configuration because you are making longer shots. The idea that a heavier shaft will carry KE a longer distance is useless if you have no accuracy past 6'. Heavy Felt Recoil (which is subjective to the user) means Recoil Shift. If you are thinking of taking a 20' shot (like on a Wahoo in Puerto Rico) you could wind up missing by 5'.. One of the most common causes of inaccuracy is overpowering.
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