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Diving Safety, Accidents and Incidents Post here to discuss accidents, incidents, ideas, gear, or anything else to improve spearfishing safety. Memorials and condolences threads should be placed in that separate forum.

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Old 09-11-2006, 11:15 PM   #1
SpearMax
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Exclamation Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

There has been some debate recently on Spearboard about the possible merits and definite dangers of in-water recompression. The subject is controversial as evidenced by this thread:

http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=34034

I had an interesting related experience this past weekend and thought I should share what happened.

My first dive of Saturday was a deep solo technical dive to 180 feet on a wreck near the Palm Beach Inlet. I found no fish to spear. The next dive was on a spearfishing spot at 126 feet for the first half of the dive and then 105 feet for the second half of the dive for some lobster hunting. The following video frames show some of the bugging action. I am using my combo tool which is an automatic looper with a special net. This tool combines the best of both worlds of lobstering techniques– the loop and the net.
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"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996

Last edited by SpearMax; 09-11-2006 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:15 PM   #2
SpearMax
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

I was doing quite well with 6 bugs in the bag in 15 minutes, but my primary gas was running low. So, I took off and started my ascent. To conserve my primary gas, I switched over to my 19 cubic foot pony bottle. But alas, I had a free-flow problem with my primary gas as indicated by the following image.

With only seconds to make a decision, I decided to push my inflater button and shoot to the surface because my primary gas was getting too low and that gas controls my buoyancy compensator. The following stats and graphs from my Cochran dive computer tell the story.
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__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996

Last edited by SpearMax; 09-12-2006 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:16 PM   #3
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

Here are some more dive computer graphs.
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__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996

Last edited by SpearMax; 09-11-2006 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:16 PM   #4
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

Once I made it to the boat, I handed up my spearing gear and had my buddy reel up the float ball line. I asked for my back up 80% oxygen bottle and dropped back down to 17 feet and breathed the oxygen mix for 15 minutes. I was very careful to avoid dropping down too deep where oxygen toxicity would be a big risk. With 80% oxygen, that depth would be 30 feet which yields a partial pressure of oxygen of 1.5. One of my buddies became a safety diver watching over me.

From the stats and graphs, one can see I experienced a rapid ascent of 143 feet per minute at its fastest and a missed deco stop of 9 minutes. Not a good situation!

Now, let me make it clear that I was NOT experiencing any dive illness symptoms of any kind. I did the in-water recompression/missed deco procedures as a preventive step as called for in my technical dive training course manuals. I have taken the training courses up to Technical Diver (IANTD) and Extended Range (TDI).

Had I been experiencing symptoms of air embolism, the bends or another diving malady, I would have decided to head straight to the chamber at St. Mary’s hospital. By sharing this experience, I am not advocating in-water recompression. Some will argue what I did was not really in-water recompression because I had no symptoms. That is a semantic argument. The technical courses include extensive use of 80% oxygen as a decompression gas. In the world of technical diving there are discussions of omitted deco procedures along with in-water recompression.
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__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996

Last edited by SpearMax; 09-11-2006 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:35 PM   #5
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

I believe full disclosure of the subject on spearboard is useful. The message should be to go out and get some advanced training in these matters and have oxygen on the boat. In-water recompression for DCS or other such symptoms is not recommended by most agencies and other authorities for a variety of reasons. However missed deco procedures when no symptoms are present is done sometimes with proper training and equipment.

As that old saying goes about having some “hair of the dog that bit you,” the very next day on Sunday my first dive executed was a near perfect technical dive to 210 feet to explore an area never before seen. Read about that dive at the following thread:

http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=34579
__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996

Last edited by SpearMax; 09-11-2006 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:40 AM   #6
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

Glad you made it safe and sound Tony. Did you ever find out what caused the freeflow?
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:46 AM   #7
Louis Rossignol
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

Tony, I would have done the same thing, if not you'de have to have a doctor do it for you.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:48 AM   #8
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Rossignol
Tony, I would have done the same thing, if not you'de have to have a doctor do it for you.
Hey Louis, who really knows?

I might have had absolutely no impact on me from the rapid ascent and missed 9 minutes of deco, but I made a personal decision to follow what my technical training says to do and went back down.

Each individual has different tolerance levels for nitogen bubbles and oxygen toxicity. You and I do alot of deep stuff and may or may not have conditioned our bodies for more tolerance than the various gas models and dive tables call for. So the theory goes, but I wanted a bit more preventive safety margin, just in case.

Sh*t happens underwater, and Spearboard should be a place we can share such experiences even if they are negative. Tony
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"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:56 AM   #9
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

Does your gear configuration make you very negatively bouyant?
Are you diving a Poseidon primary 1st stage that looses it's lock up when the tank pressure gets low?
Your ascent profile looks scary as hell to me. Glad your still walking!
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:01 AM   #10
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

I disagree with divers having a tolerence for bubbles. You either have bubbles or you don't, but the worse outcomes are definately divers why refuse to accept that they fizzed until a few days later when they can't stand it any more.
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:06 AM   #11
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Gene
Does your gear configuration make you very negatively bouyant?
Yes Gene, I am somewhat negative with my camera system and I did have some big bugs in the bag. That is why I opted to go for the surface like I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Gene
Are you diving a Poseidon primary 1st stage that looses it's lock up when the tank pressure gets low?
No, I have a Scubapro primary and a Micra Adjustable secondary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Gene
Your ascent profile looks scary as hell to me. Glad your still walking!
Gene, I definitely remembered to breathe out on ascent and to have my neck in an open airway position. The most rapid point of ascent according to the Cochran was 143 feet per minute which is just over double the old 60 feet per minute rule. I do not think that was a constant 143 from 50 feet or so. The graph looks bad, but the speed number and depth levels could have been worse I guess.
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"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:15 AM   #12
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

Why would you care if your primary reg was freeflowing, if you were on your pony ? During ascent you'd be venting gas from your BC, not adding it, unless you were seriously overweighted.
Seems like you should have ignored the freeflow, proceeded up at a normal pace, or even at the old Navy accelerated pace of 60 ft/min, then do as much deco as you could on the remaining gas you had.
Or, what I have done in the past with a freeflowing reg, is just continue to breath from it on the eway up 'till the gas is gone, then switch to the pony. You'd probably have had enough gas to complete the deco with the pony if you got to within 30 ft or so of the surface before switching.
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:43 AM   #13
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

I had a similar event about a month ago. My dives weren't as deep but I ran low on air. My first dive was only 134' and I came up very slow cause I didn't see any fish. My second dive didn't go as well. I shot a small AJ that ended up giving me alot of problems. Once I got the AJ under control I had slowly made it up to 90' before I notice I was running low on air. I made a ascent which as a little fast but not near as rapid as ours. My computer wanted me to make a Deco stop at 20' for 5 minutes but by the time I got to 20' I only had about 120# of air. By the time I was at 20' I had decided that I would get a backup tank and do my deco as best I could. I wish I would of have a NITROX mix but I figured I would get back in the water and make somewhat of a Deco stop to prevent any DCS. My Uwatec Smartcom will lock out all function if it is above any required deco stops for more than 3 minutes. And since I was out of the water for about 5 minutes to get another tank but computer was lock down. I have a descent/ascent on the back of my boat so I dropped down to 20' and hung out for about 20 minutes. As my dad played safety diver and made sure that everything went fine. I ended up having any signs of DCS so I guess my decision to jump back in the water worked OK. I might have been just fine if I would have stayed out of the water but at the time I figured this was just a little insurance. That ended my diving for the day but made me think about how I plan my dives.
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:45 AM   #14
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobK
Why would you care if your primary reg was freeflowing, if you were on your pony ? During ascent you'd be venting gas from your BC, not adding it, unless you were seriously overweighted.
Seems like you should have ignored the freeflow, proceeded up at a normal pace, or even at the old Navy accelerated pace of 60 ft/min, then do as much deco as you could on the remaining gas you had.
Or, what I have done in the past with a freeflowing reg, is just continue to breath from it on the eway up 'till the gas is gone, then switch to the pony. You'd probably have had enough gas to complete the deco with the pony if you got to within 30 ft or so of the surface before switching.

Good question Bob. My concern was bouyancy at the surface. Look at my stats, especially the primary gas going from 3,261 PSI all the way down to 117 PSI. I use a Dive Rite double bladder BC in a tech diving configuration with two ponies - one with air for emergency and one with 80% oxygen for deco. That also means H valve with double regulators and a scooter. I also have a very special camera system that adds more weight. Put a nice bag of bugs on top of that and you have more need for gas to inflate that BC. I would rather be on the surface with a fully inflated BC and no primary gas left then otherwise. Such are the choices in life (and death). Others may have taken different paths, but I made my choice and stuck with it.
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"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:49 AM   #15
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Re: Rapid Ascent - Missed Deco Problem

I'd have to side with BobK. But glad to be able to read that you followed your training. I recently added a decompression hang bar for my dives. It was simple to construct and only cost $8. On the bar I hang a spare 80% bottle, with markings on the line to keep the bar at a consistant depth, also weights to help defeat any current. It has been a real comfort to know it is there (the O2) if I need it. Just a suggestion. Keep up the posts, they are helping some to understand what we do, and to help us share some ideas.
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