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Old 02-02-2015, 01:12 PM   #1
Spear_Row
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Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

So I have a Riffe Euro 120x and I was thinking the other day about a reverse mechanism for it.
Easy to do? What do you guys think?
Thanks!
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Old 02-02-2015, 01:36 PM   #2
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

Pm spear q 8
He knows those guns very well
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Old 02-02-2015, 01:36 PM   #3
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

It won't be worth the headache unless you find a mech that has the same dimensions and pin holes.
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Old 02-02-2015, 01:49 PM   #4
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

No not without major rework
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Old 02-02-2015, 02:36 PM   #5
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

I thought about that a few times as the Riffe has a lot of unused real estate, and I guess it could be done. For a quick trigger mod you would simply pull out the trigger and trigger screws and line release and safety ... then plug it all up with teak and epoxy. Then mark the old trigger location and re-cut for the new trigger. I checked it out with an Ermes Evo Back trigger and it is an almost perfect fit and is easy as it can be put in from top with 3 screws, but a Neptonics reverse or Meandros would also work. You might have to add a little wood to allow the top of the mech to sit nicely and allow screws from top, but nothing really difficult at all. This would quickly give you about 7cm extra of band stretch. Now if you are using a Riffe shaft, you could TIG weld an extra fin further or change shafts with a back tab and gain another 5 cm. If you really are adventurous and want to optimize things even more, you could remove the handle and fill it with teak and then re-cut for the handle further back and also fit the reverse trigger accordingly. It might look weird as you will have some of the shaft without any routed rail but in my experience this is only cosmetic. This is possible because the 120X has a long butt designed for hip loading, but if you can learn to chest load that is extra gain. I calculated a total of about 20cm gain shooting a 160cm shaft ... that would be about 140cm of band stretch which is quite a big boost in performance. I might end up doing such a mod one day on a gun I have, but would probably put a CF sleeve in the mod as every time I hold up a Riffe Euro 120 or 130, I just get freaked out by how thin they are and it just seems they need to be stiffened up a little.

The thing is that it would be much smarter to simply sell the Riffe 120X and with that money buy a nice trigger with a nice handle and laminate up some teak wood and build a brand new gun. Used Riffe X's get good money used and cannibalizing one would not make economical sense.
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Old 02-02-2015, 11:59 PM   #6
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

Considering where the fins are on the stock shaft, the easiest, (and cheapest) solution to achieve the same result would be to find a shaft with fins placed further back.
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:00 PM   #7
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

Thank you all for your responses. I very much appreciate your knowledge and insight. I like the idea of getting a shaft (or someone to weld on a tab) onto the very back of a shaft. Get a little more band stretch without having to do too much.
Thanks!
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Old 03-02-2015, 06:32 PM   #8
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

Quote:
Originally Posted by manoa matt View Post
Considering where the fins are on the stock shaft, the easiest, (and cheapest) solution to achieve the same result would be to find a shaft with fins placed further back.
AGREED
What I have done in the past is to add a rearward fin as close to the mech as possible. This gives you 2inches more band stretch PER band on the factory Riffe Euro spear.
hope this helps
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:15 AM   #9
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
I thought about that a few times as the Riffe has a lot of unused real estate, and I guess it could be done. For a quick trigger mod you would simply pull out the trigger and trigger screws and line release and safety ... then plug it all up with teak and epoxy. Then mark the old trigger location and re-cut for the new trigger. I checked it out with an Ermes Evo Back trigger and it is an almost perfect fit and is easy as it can be put in from top with 3 screws, but a Neptonics reverse or Meandros would also work. You might have to add a little wood to allow the top of the mech to sit nicely and allow screws from top, but nothing really difficult at all. This would quickly give you about 7cm extra of band stretch. Now if you are using a Riffe shaft, you could TIG weld an extra fin further or change shafts with a back tab and gain another 5 cm. If you really are adventurous and want to optimize things even more, you could remove the handle and fill it with teak and then re-cut for the handle further back and also fit the reverse trigger accordingly. It might look weird as you will have some of the shaft without any routed rail but in my experience this is only cosmetic. This is possible because the 120X has a long butt designed for hip loading, but if you can learn to chest load that is extra gain. I calculated a total of about 20cm gain shooting a 160cm shaft ... that would be about 140cm of band stretch which is quite a big boost in performance. I might end up doing such a mod one day on a gun I have, but would probably put a CF sleeve in the mod as every time I hold up a Riffe Euro 120 or 130, I just get freaked out by how thin they are and it just seems they need to be stiffened up a little.

The thing is that it would be much smarter to simply sell the Riffe 120X and with that money buy a nice trigger with a nice handle and laminate up some teak wood and build a brand new gun. Used Riffe X's get good money used and cannibalizing one would not make economical sense.
this may little old post but what's your opinion on the Mechanism Evo-Back ?is it suitable to handle 3 rubbers after modification of adding a roll ?
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:21 AM   #10
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

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Originally Posted by doyenofcastle View Post
this may little old post but what's your opinion on the Mechanism Evo-Back ?is it suitable to handle 3 rubbers after modification of adding a roll ?
The Evo Back uses a back roller ... but the front is just a friction trigger. So it will suffer from galling just like any other friction trigger. Just go for a normal double roller, it really is by far the best trigger that Ermessub makes and IMHO it is the best reverse trigger available in the market today. There are two types of DR triggers, one is short and one is long. For some reason the short version is more popular ... I think by a factor of 4 to 1 ... but I personally like the long version.

To install the DR trigger (or any Leaf Trigger) you need to make sure the leafs are 90 degrees to the mech so that when you screw in the screws and the leafs try to flatten out, that they don't put pressure on your mech as the screws bend the arms flat. This can easily be done by tapping the leafs with a small hammer and checking that you have a 90 degree angle before installing the trigger. That is one problem I found with installing the trigger. Obviously guys that build guns for a living tend to do that automatically, but a lot of guys just building a couple of guns might not double check that, so I think it is good to point that out. This is especially important if you make the mech cut in the gun with very tight tolerances ... then add a coat or two of epoxy making the tolerances even tighter.

With regards to the Riffe Euro getting a reverse trigger ... that can easily be done. Leaf triggers are incredibly easy to install on any existing speargun as you have full control of how high or low you can place the trigger. With the longer Riffe Euro guns, I would then worry about the length of the stock and deflection. The cross section of the Riffe Euro is incredibly small. I have done this mod by I ended up adding some wood to add ballast and some carbon fiber to keep the stock stiff. The results were excellent. I will say that I would not recommend this mod though ... the Riffe Euro trigger is perfect as it is and I think with the amount of work it takes to make this mod it is just easier to make a brand new gun from scratch.

Last edited by spearq8; 04-19-2018 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:11 AM   #11
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

Spearq8...Thanks for that post!

Here is a video I found on it;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZGd...ature=youtu.be

It looks like someone has "improved the mouse trap"
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:11 AM   #12
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

Nice thread. I miss threads like this.
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:35 PM   #13
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
The Evo Back uses a back roller ... but the front is just a friction trigger. So it will suffer from galling just like any other friction trigger. Just go for a normal double roller, it really is by far the best trigger that Ermessub makes and IMHO it is the best reverse trigger available in the market today. There are two types of DR triggers, one is short and one is long. For some reason the short version is more popular ... I think by a factor of 4 to 1 ... but I personally like the long version.

To install the DR trigger (or any Leaf Trigger) you need to make sure the leafs are 90 degrees to the mech so that when you screw in the screws and the leafs try to flatten out, that they don't put pressure on your mech as the screws bend the arms flat. This can easily be done by tapping the leafs with a small hammer and checking that you have a 90 degree angle before installing the trigger. That is one problem I found with installing the trigger. Obviously guys that build guns for a living tend to do that automatically, but a lot of guys just building a couple of guns might not double check that, so I think it is good to point that out. This is especially important if you make the mech cut in the gun with very tight tolerances ... then add a coat or two of epoxy making the tolerances even tighter.

With regards to the Riffe Euro getting a reverse trigger ... that can easily be done. Leaf triggers are incredibly easy to install on any existing speargun as you have full control of how high or low you can place the trigger. With the longer Riffe Euro guns, I would then worry about the length of the stock and deflection. The cross section of the Riffe Euro is incredibly small. I have done this mod by I ended up adding some wood to add ballast and some carbon fiber to keep the stock stiff. The results were excellent. I will say that I would not recommend this mod though ... the Riffe Euro trigger is perfect as it is and I think with the amount of work it takes to make this mod it is just easier to make a brand new gun from scratch.
I fix DR to my 120+ guns ,I don't know if u have tried sigal reverse trigger but I have fixed to one short 100 gun with 2 rubber 14mm 350% ,the worst trigger pull after 20 shot ,so do u think evo back will give same results of hard trigger pull after 20 or even 50 shot ? if not I ll fix it to short gun with 2 rubber 14 mm 90 cm and keep DR for 130 or more with 3 rubbers .
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:05 AM   #14
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

The Evo Back is a good trigger but it is a friction trigger and thus will suffer galling. The Sigalsub trigger is also a friction trigger so it will suffer from galling. Once you use a double roller trigger it is hard to accept these type of triggers as they just don't break in a predictable manner. This type of scratching can vary depending on how you setup your gun. If you use a bungee, the bungee adds tension on the line release which adds tension on your shaft sear ... thus higher amount of scratching. If you use a reel with no tension on your line release the scratching will be less. As you increase band load, the pressure on the sears increases ... thus the scratching will also be more. The thing is that even a tiny amount of scratching will change your accuracy ... I see that in testing in the pool. You might not notice it while hunting, and you probably just assume that the gut shot rather than the stone shot or that air ball ... was just due to a poor shot by the shooter. I have had lots of people come in my pool and test out their equipment and they immediately see the benefit of a good crisp predictable trigger pull. Most spearos can actually shoot very good, and with properly setup equipment and a good trigger, they will be able to keep their shots inside 2 inches at 5 meters. Using their own equipment, I have yet to see one spearo be able to put 5 shots inside a 12 inch circle at the same distance. That is how much of a difference it makes!

Forget the Evo Back, just go with the double roller. A lot of work went into that trigger to fix the exact problems you are facing.
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Old 04-20-2018, 06:41 AM   #15
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Re: Can a Riffe Euro Take a Reverse MechL

spearq8;

The film ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZGd...ature=youtu.be ) says "Theoretically" the double roller will take an American shaft ( if a smaller roller were to be used)…do you have any experience with this?
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