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Hawaiian Islands Aloha - Paradise exists for the shooters of the Hawaiian Islands

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Old 08-10-2006, 01:01 PM   #31
Mauiinfinity
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

Whoa this has turned into a political argument..... I didnt want to hurt anyones feelings or make anyone mad by starting this service for spearfishing. I didnt pick the best spot to do it either. I will say even if mauispearfishing was taking alot of people out it still would be a small fish in a big sea. Anyway I see maui's issues and respect them. I love spearfishing and would love to share it with people. I am rethinking my approach and location due to the heat this has already reiceved.


Just curious what are peoples views outside of maui for a spearfishing company that teaches lessons, charters, guided dive... ect?????
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:32 PM   #32
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

Quote:
Originally Posted by palangikillah
First off I appreciate you wanting to know what is right and wrong to shoot, because most people dont care. But the fact of the matter is if we didnt have tourist and Maui wasnt such a hot spot we wouldnt need great jobs because the average priced in home is $700k, most of the locals who have been born and raised here would sacrifice a high paying job to not have almost all of our beach access blocked with hotels and beach front mansions. We would have less crowded beaches less runoff, more fish, in fact I talk to a lot of tourist who dont even visit here anymore because of all the new development and all the people, if you have visited in the 70s and havent been back untill now you will see.
I was there last in 1983, I remember they were building some mega hotels at the time. we stayed at the black rock I cant remember the hotel name but it was at the end of the beach next to the black rock cliff across from a golf course. I got my first taste of snorkeling and freediving then as well as had some locals show me how to skimboard hawaiian style. we stayed there 2 weeks that year. I will be renting a house right across the street on the golf course. I feel your pain to some degree florida has alot in common with you when it comes to condo's and hotels owning the beach access. I guess when your staying at the hotel it feels like you own the beach.
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:43 PM   #33
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

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Originally Posted by thecrab87
Junior et al-
You guys have got to understand the frustration. You dive a spot your entire life. Your father takes you there. You plan on taking your kids there. Then, one day, some guy from the mainland who was lucky enough to get out before the dot com bubble burst shows up, plunks down 20 million bucks, builds a mansion, and then decides he doesn't like all the riff raff running through "his" beach. Access denied. I can personally think of 3 dive spots that this has happened to me on the NORTH shore. The south shore is 10 times worse. Maui IS getting overrun. There are thousands of acres of development already approved by our county council, with thousands more on their way.

So.... Palangi may have come across a little harsh. Cut him some slack. So many things are being taken away from the locals. I don't remember all the details, but I was at a public meeting talking about closing an area to fishing, and a local fisherman spoke up... "Some many things have been taken away from us. Don't take this one too."

Best way to look at it... Maui is turning into Honolulu, and no one knows how to stop it.

I wish more than 6 guys were in on this discussion, it's valuable.

Willie, I don't buy that argument. While you don't come out and say it, you -- and Palangikillah -- imply a certain hypocrital localism. You decry development and the privatization of your dive sites by "some guy from the mainland", but you only make the argument relative to it's impact on long time locals. Would that 20 million dollar house and subsequent closure be o.k. if it was bought by a someone who's family lived there for generations? Should that puplic access you value so much be available for spearfishermen visiting from out of state?

The conditions that lead to your frustration are not limited to Hawaii. We're all dealing with the effects of an expanding economy and population, whether it's access, pollution, competition, reduced fish populations, or whatever. Every locale has its unique symptoms.

That said, my first ever post on Spearboard was pulled by the moderator, because I unloaded on Gonetobaja for running for-profit grouper charters in Mexico. I thought it was unconscionable, and I still do. But I subsequently learned that it wasn't that simple. Dale seems to be a pretty good guy. He thinks he's helping the local environment by encouraging local pangueros to take out spearfishermen instead of setting gillnets. I'm not convinced, but I'll wait and see.

So, Palangikillah probably did everybody a favor (including Mauispearfishingdude) by bringing this to light. Maybe this guy needs to get his shit together before he starts a charter business. Or maybe not. Maybe he's a good guy too, and he just sucks at making a web site.
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:43 PM   #34
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomol
Willie, I don't buy that argument. While you don't come out and say it, you -- and Palangikillah -- imply a certain hypocrital localism. You decry development and the privatization of your dive sites by "some guy from the mainland", but you only make the argument relative to it's impact on long time locals. Would that 20 million dollar house and subsequent closure be o.k. if it was bought by a someone who's family lived there for generations? Should that puplic access you value so much be available for spearfishermen visiting from out of state?
I forget the exact numbers but the state does require the beach to be accessible every so many yards or so, but alot of people still dont comply. And yes the access should be available to spearfishermen from out of state it is "public" access. As far as local families owning land on the water, most dont have houses anywhere near the million dollar mark, nor do they have huge gates surrounding their properties limiting beach access. If you want to access the water through their property, it helps to know the family or just ask, their is an unwritten rule in hawaii about taking only what you need not what you can, ecspecially when doing it in front of peoples properties, and always give some of your catch as a thank you....the difference with most local families that have lived on the water for many generations is they have been living off the food from the ocean, and have their own rules they follow to ensure that they will have fish for many more generations. And they will and have allowed people from all walks of life to access through there property, since sometimes the access that they are required to leave open is sometimes very radical, and climbing down cliffs and such.

Whereas most people from the mainland dont want to be bothered by anyone, they treat the beach as if they bought that too along with their
property, and more times than not leave no beach access at all.
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:59 PM   #35
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhed
I was there last in 1983, I remember they were building some mega hotels at the time. we stayed at the black rock I cant remember the hotel name but it was at the end of the beach next to the black rock cliff across from a golf course. I got my first taste of snorkeling and freediving then as well as had some locals show me how to skimboard hawaiian style. we stayed there 2 weeks that year. I will be renting a house right across the street on the golf course. I feel your pain to some degree florida has alot in common with you when it comes to condo's and hotels owning the beach access. I guess when your staying at the hotel it feels like you own the beach.

You will be shocked by all the traffic congestion going in and out of the west side, and I cant even remember how many new hotels and high end subdivisions went up on that side of the island since you have been here, im sure you will still have fun here but you will pretty shocked.
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Old 08-10-2006, 07:03 PM   #36
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

[quote=thecrab87]Junior et al-
"You guys have got to understand the frustration. You dive a spot your entire life. Your father takes you there. You plan on taking your kids there. Then, one day, some guy from the mainland who was lucky enough to get out before the dot com bubble burst shows up, plunks down 20 million bucks, builds a mansion, and then decides he doesn't like all the riff raff running through "his" beach. Access denied. I can personally think of 3 dive spots that this has happened to me on the NORTH shore... "

I'm too tired to really get in to this in a logical manner right now, but this quote could be applied to much of the coastline from vero beach down to the FL Keys. Especially Miami comes to mind. This was especially noticable when I used to surf more than dive (or at least hope for surf) in s. FL. Theres miles of coast in north miami where there is virtually no access due to highrise condos...hell, for that matter theres miles of coastline in florida, california, rhode island, Mass, and every other coastal state I've been to that this applies to. Not saying right or wrong, its just reality. The whole haole thing is pretty predominant in Guam too. You don't hear it from the old timers though because they remember when they were children and their moms and dads were enslaved and killed by the Japanese and it was the "haoles" who retook the island and airdropped spam to keep them alive.
I've been diving all day and am baked so this is probably pretty incoherent.
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Old 08-10-2006, 07:53 PM   #37
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

[quote=sbh]
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrab87
Junior et al-
"You guys have got to understand the frustration. You dive a spot your entire life. Your father takes you there. You plan on taking your kids there. Then, one day, some guy from the mainland who was lucky enough to get out before the dot com bubble burst shows up, plunks down 20 million bucks, builds a mansion, and then decides he doesn't like all the riff raff running through "his" beach. Access denied. I can personally think of 3 dive spots that this has happened to me on the NORTH shore... "

I'm too tired to really get in to this in a logical manner right now, but this quote could be applied to much of the coastline from vero beach down to the FL Keys. Especially Miami comes to mind. This was especially noticable when I used to surf more than dive (or at least hope for surf) in s. FL. Theres miles of coast in north miami where there is virtually no access due to highrise condos...hell, for that matter theres miles of coastline in florida, california, rhode island, Mass, and every other coastal state I've been to that this applies to. Not saying right or wrong, its just reality. The whole haole thing is pretty predominant in Guam too. You don't hear it from the old timers though because they remember when they were children and their moms and dads were enslaved and killed by the Japanese and it was the "haoles" who retook the island and airdropped spam to keep them alive.
I've been diving all day and am baked so this is probably pretty incoherent.
Thats what I dont understand, Ive seen pictures of millions of people on the beach in miami and you cant even see the sand and all the coastlines everywhere are becoming overcrowded and non accessible, so rather than sit back and say "oh well its inevitable, what can I do about it", we are speaking up and addressing these issues, whether it be here or at our local meetings, we are letting our voices be heard, just because its like that in so cal, fla, and honolulu that doesnt mean we want it here.
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Old 08-10-2006, 09:47 PM   #38
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

Here we have 30 miloes of white beaches and we have a very limited amount of area allowed to be developed on the beach. Kinda nice to be able to drive down the highway and check out the sunbathers On the other hand the traffic gets horrible when the tourists decide that since the main highway runs alongside the beach it must be a scenic drive with a 5mph limit......
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Old 08-10-2006, 10:02 PM   #39
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

Hope for bird flu. A good pandemic should cure our over crowding problem. All kidding aside the problem is not just overcrowding but the attitude that if you have money you should be able to buy it all. Over here it is the same thing with hunting. One guy buys a piece of property bordering BLM land and close the only access road, the guy before would let anyone walk the perimeter of the property, the new guy waves a you when you go in and you come back to flaten tires an the sheriff. It is time for sportsman all over to get together and make sure that society understands that public ressorces needs to be accesible to all. That way we all have a stake in making sure that our ressorces don't go the way of the buffallo. In this contry and a few others, individual right are way more important than the future.
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Old 08-10-2006, 10:07 PM   #40
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

Quote:
Originally Posted by palangikillah
Thats what I dont understand, Ive seen pictures of millions of people on the beach in miami and you cant even see the sand and all the coastlines everywhere are becoming overcrowded and non accessible, so rather than sit back and say "oh well its inevitable, what can I do about it", we are speaking up and addressing these issues, whether it be here or at our local meetings, we are letting our voices be heard, just because its like that in so cal, fla, and honolulu that doesnt mean we want it here.
I'm all for people banding together and voicing their oppinions. Its great to have freedom of speech. I can't really get too much into a debate over this because I have to admit my position on this subject isn't so clear cut (whether it be hawaii or anywhere else). Certainly its not a positive approach to say "oh well, thats just how its gonna be", but at the same time, if I was the guy with 20 million I might like to buy that piece of property on the point and put a 6k sq foot house on it. Chances are if I did this and had a say, I would limit access to the property I paid for as private also. Morally is that wrong.....? I'm not sure.
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Old 08-10-2006, 10:24 PM   #41
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

Just remember that someone is selling that property too. What fault do they have if any. If all Maui used to belong to locals...then the locals sold it out too. Complex issue and probably not going away anytime soon. We want good health care and medicine but bitch when there are too many people around which is an indirest result of better health care and longevity. Whattayado???
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Old 08-11-2006, 01:20 AM   #42
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

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Just remember that someone is selling that property too. What fault do they have if any. If all Maui used to belong to locals...then the locals sold it out too. Complex issue and probably not going away anytime soon. We want good health care and medicine but bitch when there are too many people around which is an indirest result of better health care and longevity. Whattayado???
Its deeper than that, most of Maui and I do mean most, is owned by old missionary families like Alexander and Baldwin and Dole just to name a few, even though Alexander and Baldwin own just about everything, so they are the ones who are reallly selling off the land, but I do agree the seller whether it be local or not did give the rich guy an oppurtunity to build, and at the same time it is his money and if spends a lot of it on a million dollar home he can make his own rules within his property, but the beaches can never be bought, even though people think they own it.......the story of the hawaiian people and their land is a whole different subject, which we dont need to go into on this website.......even though thats where a lot of the frustration stems from.

But you are right it is a complex issue, not only here in the islands but im sure in your neck of the woods also.
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Old 08-11-2006, 05:40 AM   #43
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

Can you actually buy the beach itself? I mean, littoral rights extend from the high water mark and anything from that mark on is state and or federal land, so when these guys are buying the property, are they also buying the littoral rights from the state/feds? If not, its a good thing you guys have hurricanes since they push that high water mark pretty far im sure...unless its a mean HWM, which I'm not too sure on.
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Old 08-11-2006, 07:38 AM   #44
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

I'm new to the islands, I just moved here to the big island. Im into scuba and am also a fairly avid fisherman who wants to learn about spearfishing. After reading all of what's been said I'm curious to know if I should expect any hostility?
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Old 08-11-2006, 08:31 AM   #45
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Re: If your coming to Maui to Spearfishing......

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomol
I wonder. I see a pretty smart guy who can express himself well (and who doesn't give a s**t about grammar) and is passionate. I also see a guy who's probably young and hasn't figured out yet a that he won't affect peoples attitudes with belligerence. He'll only piss them off. Or maybe he just likes an argument.


So you think palangikillah is a smart guy, and expresses himself well?

What I see is a guy who is being a racist, but that is Ok, because he is bitching about whitey, I previously used the term "Jap" in a far less demeaning tone and got a few PM's about how insensitive I was.

As far as my age is concerned, a quick check of my profile would show you that, it isn't that difficult to check, but I will take it as a compliment.

I can see why you guys are upset about development, but it is private property and if you don't want the land developed, buy it and keep the developers out.

As far as the website showing those small fish and what appears to be a speared lobster, that is pathetic, even if the lobster was put on a stringer, it still does not look good on a spear fishing site, is it even legal to put them on a stringer? I know in Florida it is illegal.

If the website is showing illegal fish, make a call to the local game warden.

I have previously commented about how small the fish are in Hawaii, but have had some pictures sent to me of some larger and more impressive fish, but it seems like some people over there don't mind shooting little bullshit fish.
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