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Old 02-17-2008, 01:25 PM   #1
seahunter49
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The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

Often when I read comments about freedive training in the context of spearfishing I get really ticked off. Pool training, stretching bottom time almost to the point of blackout or blackout, benevolent smiles from freedive instructors after someone awakes from a blackout, focus on a safe environment to push oneself etc. etc.

I try to rationalize why it bothers me so much. To start with propagating ignorance bothers me in general, why is it ignorance in this case? Because freediving for freediving's sake and breath hold spearfishing are two completely different things. Where does the difference lie? This is what this thread is about, here are some of my ideas trying to nail it down.

For one you have a speargun in your hand. This changes the the position of the body. Muscles are constantly in use balancing and gripping the speargun in dependence of sea conditions. The body works as a whole and energy directed away from one area of the body to control another area is sure to throw things out of balance. A freediver doesn't have to deal with this.

A freediver can concentrate fully on the descent. Directing the minds energy at one single goal contributes to relaxation which contributes to the duration of the breath hold. A spearfisher has a hundred concerns as he's making his descent. Am I coming down on the right spot? Will there be fish when I get there? What's the best position to make my approach? If there are fish is the gun in a position where I can track a fish easily? etc. etc.

Single mindedness about breath hold diving is the disregard of factors that the environment imposes. It is convenient to do so, life is dangerous and anything can happen. Concentrating on breath hold and nothing more is a blissful state, yeah.. I'm a freaking human dolphin, I transcended the limitations nature has imposed on me as a human being through sheer will power. But it is an illusion unless done within the context of something else, traditionally food gathering, recovery or rescue.

I like diving but I need a reason or a goal to get down there. Spearfishing provides that goal and thus I consider myself different from divers who's goal is the clock. I'm not knocking competitive free divers. Depth and time is an accurate measure of their breath hold ability and reactivity in the water, tolerance to changing water pressure, light etc. I just have a problem when that and spearfishing are spoken of in one breath.
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:09 PM   #2
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

Interesting thoughts Seahunter. I agree freediving and spearfishing are two very different activities. Just because someone can hold there breath for a long time or has a six minute static doesn't mean they are a going to be great at spearing. Like you mentioned, there is a lot more going on while spearing and a lot more to think about.

But maybe I can ease your frustration. I am a firm believer in competition. I think it teaches us about our limits and pushes us past our comfort levels, ultimately making us better at what we are trying to achieve. Competition makes us train harder and points out our weaknesses. I look at freediving as training for spearfishing.

I think it is ignorant if a spearo goes out with little training or no idea of their personal boundaries. It is very easy to get in trouble in the ocean environment and if you don't have your shat together it could mean your life. I think it is a good idea for spearos to push their limits in a protected environment like freediving can provide.

I think freediving and spearfishing should both be practiced together. I think they compliment each other very well, and you will only come away a better diver and waterman.

I am not sure if this is what you meant to discuss, but I thought i would share my thoughts as well. Thanks for the thoughts. Happy hunting.

TIM
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:39 PM   #3
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

Hey Tim, it's interesting that you brought competitiveness into the discussion. I started another thread some time ago titled "Is spearfishing a sport to you?". The majority of the people said that it is a sport bringing up competitiveness as one of the defining factors making it a sport. Myself and a couple of other guys stated that competitiveness and spearfishing don't mix well. I find that for myself competitiveness takes away from the spearfishing experience and explained the reasons why.

As far as ignorance of one's personal boundaries; I think that the best progression to learn and surpass ones boundaries is a natural unhurried one, like what I had when I started. Beach diving and progressively going further and deeper. I think the problem is many people want to take shortcuts because of limited diving possibilities due to lack of time or not being in the right local.

I agree that breath hold diving for spearfishing should be practiced while spearfishing.
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:50 PM   #4
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

Everything I've heard about formal freedive courses is that the best part about them is the safety lessons - skills you learn to deal with adverse situations. In an activity like spearfishing where you can get into a tight spot fairly easily, the ability to save yours or another person's life is infinitely valuable.

In addition, you learn how to freedive properly, in a way that is the safest for your body and which maximizes performance. You will never learn skills ranging from hook breaths to emergency procedures by only doing beach dives.

I can't wait for an opportunity to attend a PFI or FIT class.
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:07 PM   #5
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

Kolt, thanks for your words. Every situation near to being an emergency that I experienced while spearfishing was not a situation that freedive training will prepare you for. Getting caught up with fishing line, getting stung by a man of war, being swept out by current and too tired to get back, being harassed by a shark, etc. etc.

All freedive emergencies that I've heard of were caused in the first place by divers surpassing their boundaries due to competitiveness or their perception that they should be able to, exactly because of knowing that other divers can do it.
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:13 PM   #6
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

I agree with kjflyfish.....There is a reason why people take these classes.... to get better at spearfishing and you can use free diving techniques to improve a person's spearfishing regardless whether it is totally different to you.
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:13 PM   #7
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

Is there a difference between being trained to deal with a specific emergency (tangled in line, sharks, current, etc.) vs developing a "panic avoidance" mindset that better prepares you to deal with any unforeseen event?
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:25 PM   #8
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

Tin Man, I think that spearfishing teaches you the hard way that the best way to deal with emergency situations is to stay calm. I can't remember how long before this happens or how many situations I've been through that created this mindset, but I'd conclude that it was forced on me. What I mean is that if I didn't calm down I'd probably not be here.

I remember one time when I was just starting, I was diving around 45ft which was big for me at the time. I was out from shore and the sea got choppy, I made some deep dives (for me) to recover a speared grouper. I then got sick and needed to throw up. Dry heaves in the water with waves breaking over your head is no joke. But I knew right away I had to relax and go with the flow. Thats when you learn you can.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:20 PM   #9
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

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Originally Posted by seahunter49 View Post
Kolt, thanks for your words. Every situation near to being an emergency that I experienced while spearfishing was not a situation that freedive training will prepare you for. Getting caught up with fishing line, getting stung by a man of war, being swept out by current and too tired to get back, being harassed by a shark, etc. etc.

All freedive emergencies that I've heard of were caused in the first place by divers surpassing their boundaries due to competitiveness or their perception that they should be able to, exactly because of knowing that other divers can do it.
I think what you are saying is that courses like PFI cause more harm than good, i.e. people becoming more competitive and going beyond their limitations. I doubt that this is the case. Check out Oceans in Action II - aside from the awesome footage, there is a special feature with Kirk Krack about freedive training. He talks about how the mission of PFI is to train divers (who are mostly spearfishermen) to be safe participants, not statistics.

Regardless, if you were diving with someone who surpassed their boundaries and blacked out, wouldn't you rather have the formal training to deal with that situation in the best possible way?
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:33 PM   #10
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

I want to point out that I never mentioned PFI or any other course.

But I do think that such courses do more harm than good to inexperienced spearfishers. A good way to improve if a person is not a natural or doesn't find himself in the most ideal conditions to develop naturally is to have a mentor.

I did see oceans in action II. I liked it especially becasue some of the diving is local as well as the divers. I think that the PFI and the hogfish study segments added nothing to my enjoyment of the DVD.

I think a CPR or a lifeguard course would pretty much cover what to do in a blackout situation. There is after all not that much that you can do. It is common sense for your diving partner to ask for a spot on a particularly difficult dive. If you're paying attention it is obvious when the person is in trouble. Learning the accepted names (samba etc.) is not going to make you a safer dive partner.

It scares me to think that there are spearfishers out there attempting difficult dives if they are in need of this very basic instruction because they are completely unaware of possible complications. I can't remember how I found out about these things, maybe word of mouth, maybe reading a book. Regardless, the information shouldn't be this expensive.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:37 PM   #11
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

I've taken the course and specifically did it to increase my safety. I learned a bunch and feel that I'm much safer now. Their stats don't lie. Before last year none of their thousands of students had become statistics - one of their former students died while freediving alone last year (something they highly discourage). We all know that a large number of our friends aren't with us anymore. Thinking that these courses, which teach safety and how to deal with bad situations are the problem is misguided in my opinion.

They teach a bunch of safety stuff that isn't going to be found in any CPR or lifeguard class.

If you take the course and still think the same way, I'd be surprised.

Chad
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:43 PM   #12
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

Chad, I never heard about this death. Could you point me to some information about it.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:49 PM   #13
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

I don't know the details - they mentioned it when I took the course.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:51 PM   #14
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

Quote:
Originally Posted by seahunter49 View Post
I want to point out that I never mentioned PFI or any other course.

But I do think that such courses do more harm than good to inexperienced spearfishers. A good way to improve if a person is not a natural or doesn't find himself in the most ideal conditions to develop naturally is to have a mentor.

I did see oceans in action II. I liked it especially becasue some of the diving is local as well as the divers. I think that the PFI and the hogfish study segments added nothing to my enjoyment of the DVD.

I think a CPR or a lifeguard course would pretty much cover what to do in a blackout situation. There is after all not that much that you can do. It is common sense for your diving partner to ask for a spot on a particularly difficult dive. If you're paying attention it is obvious when the person is in trouble. Learning the accepted names (samba etc.) is not going to make you a safer dive partner.

It scares me to think that there are spearfishers out there attempting difficult dives if they are in need of this very basic instruction because they are completely unaware of possible complications. I can't remember how I found out about these things, maybe word of mouth, maybe reading a book. Regardless, this information shouldn't be this expensive.

This seems pointless - you don't like the idea of freedive training mixed with spearfishing. But why? Do you want to discourage everyone from taking a freedive course? Remember, spearfishers are the main attendees - a lot of these people are experienced hunters who have learned to deal with sharks, jellyfish, and entaglements through experience. Everyone I've talked to about the freedive courses says that they learned valuable information (a lot of which you wouldn't learn otherwise) and are better divers because of it. I will be taking a course for this very reason. It won't be tomorrow, but definitely in the near future. Heck, we could take one together - then we could see for ourselves if it's worth it.
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:32 PM   #15
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Re: The difference between competetive freediving and breath hold spearfishing

Kolt, I've already explained the reasons why I don't like to mix freedive training with spearfishing in my first post as well as my reasons for writing about it here. Taking a freediving course or not is a separate issue, it's a question of value and different to every person. There are many things to learn in life some of which we're not even aware of that can be of benefit to us until we learn them. Does this mean that I must take a course even if there's just one thing I can learn from it? I feel I'm on the right track and don't want anything to diffuse my focus.
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