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Old 06-06-2019, 03:52 AM   #1
Rob Ryan
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Best 120

What do you think is the best gun 120cm and under for blue water?

For travel, that 130 Abellan Albacore is a little big.

That 120 Alemanni Hybrid is pretty out of control with that video showing it shooting 7m with a 9.5mm shaft!

Curious about that 115 Alemanni Stilo (double roller).

What say you?
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:14 AM   #2
Alec
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Re: Best 120

Koah Euro 120 Deep open track & 7.5mm does the trick for me
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:10 PM   #3
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Re: Best 120

When you say 120, I guess you mean Band Stretch, but let's talk total length.

The Alemanni 115 Double Roller is 45"
Alemanni 130 Double Roller is 51"
Abellan 130 is 62"

When you say Bluewater, Do you mean like Wahoo and Tuna?

Those Alemanni's are amazing.

Everytime I get out in the Bluewater, the last thing I want is a Short gun. The other thing I don't want is a shaft under 5/16", and I want 20' of Kill Range as minimum.

For me, a 120 (call it 45"-50" total length) is just tooo short for Bluewater. It makes it harder to aim at a target in the distance in Clearwater. Over here in Hawaii where the Water is very Clear, people are very effective using 150cm guns which have actual length of 65-70" for Bluewater. I like a 54" gun on the Reef in Clear water.. I'm not talking Rollers.

But if you are looking for a Great 120 ie 45-50" total length for Bluewater, can't go wrong with an Alemanni. Those Carbons are particularly nice. I know 2Fishin2 is currently out putting one of them Carbonia Rollers through it's paces.. Those look promising. Interceptor is a new company which has a nice design. Those guns Nevin posts up here Gladiator Bestiarus, look sweet.
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Old 06-06-2019, 07:03 PM   #4
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Re: Best 120

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec View Post
Koah Euro 120 Deep open track & 7.5mm does the trick for me
Awesome! Have any pics?
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:22 PM   #5
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Re: Best 120

the interceptor is cute but not at all suitable for blue hunting
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Old 06-07-2019, 02:41 AM   #6
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Re: Best 120

I haven't seen an Interceptor in person, just liked the look of it. I've seen a bunch of Pathos style Rail Gun conversions using 3 groups of Bands on Pulleys, but haven't seen any Hard numbers in testing. I like length and I'm partial to the simplicity of Classic band Guns. I use a 56" gun for Deep Reef, a 62" Gun for Light Bluewater, and a 68-70" Gun for Heavy Bluewater. I have seen an Alemanni in person.. and caressed it until it's owner demanded it be returned.
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Old 06-07-2019, 04:07 AM   #7
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Re: Best 120

Wow, 45" on the Stilo 115, I had no idea so short. I wonder what shaft dia. those guys like Pete shooting, must be over 8mm maybe 8.5? I agree those Alemanni guns look amazing. I think guns start shrinking in clear bluewater.

Last edited by hydroid; 06-07-2019 at 04:18 AM.
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Old 06-07-2019, 12:09 PM   #8
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Re: Best 120

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
I haven't seen an Interceptor in person, just liked the look of it. I've seen a bunch of Pathos style Rail Gun conversions using 3 groups of Bands on Pulleys, but haven't seen any Hard numbers in testing. I like length and I'm partial to the simplicity of Classic band Guns. I use a 56" gun for Deep Reef, a 62" Gun for Light Bluewater, and a 68-70" Gun for Heavy Bluewater. I have seen an Alemanni in person.. and caressed it until it's owner demanded it be returned.
the interceptor is in the language Roisub a Demo 3, a 7.5 mm shaft has a good speed, on the other hand an arrow of 8mm is a little slow, it will miss penetration on a big prey at a good distance.

for the rest the finish looks very good.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:24 PM   #9
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Re: Best 120

As Jon pointed out 120 only means so much to the total size of speargun these days. My usual go to for bluewater is 20' penetration with 8.5mm shaft. I have used 8mm in the Albacore for wahoo without issue before though. I also like at least 60" of gun, it is not easy aiming something small in the wide open.

I'm not sure why you think the Albacore is big to travel with. I've went to Lousiana and Baja with both Albacore and Denton with shafts for each as well as those places with a 67" Sea Sniper which dwarfs the Albacore. The sport tube may need to extend a little but it has wheels.

The Alemanni's look insane, I've yet to shoot one. If you can get the distance with a smaller package then go for it.

Whatever you do don't go travel for bluewater fish and take a reef gun.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:18 PM   #10
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Re: Best 120

Nice of you to chime in!

Sorry, I’ll try and clear this up. I mean 120cm as barrel length like a standard euro gun. Most international flights in Europe limit luggage to 62”. The Albacore is roughly that length alone and even longer shafts making it a little bit too big for some international travel.

Jon, I can assure you that you’re wrong in your overall Alemanni length estimates. They do not measure their guns like you, in overall length, but more similarly to Abellan. The 115 Stilo Express DR is 56” and their new 120 Hybrid is 59” offering 123cm of band stretch. A friend of mine owns the 115 DR along with 2 other Alemanni’s with a 120 Hybrid on the way. Perhaps you got your measurements confused for their break down, travel versions?

I spoke with Harry and can’t wait for him to introduce a 120 Albacore with that Ermesub DR Trigger! That gun would fit the bill...

I remember my old Oceanborn 120 (I think it was an older euro version w/left side line release) was able to hold up to 4 bands and the muzzle was neutral with an 8.5mm, 160cm shaft! Unfortunately, I just couldn’t seem to control it with its low hand placement and long reach to the trigger.

Anybody know of a tradition gun, up to 58”, able to hold 3 14.5mm bands and be buoyant enough to handle an 8.5mm shaft? Would it be too much to ask for good handle geometry too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castronova View Post
As Jon pointed out 120 only means so much to the total size of speargun these days. My usual go to for bluewater is 20' penetration with 8.5mm shaft. I have used 8mm in the Albacore for wahoo without issue before though. I also like at least 60" of gun, it is not easy aiming something small in the wide open.

I'm not sure why you think the Albacore is big to travel with. I've went to Lousiana and Baja with both Albacore and Denton with shafts for each as well as those places with a 67" Sea Sniper which dwarfs the Albacore. The sport tube may need to extend a little but it has wheels.

The Alemanni's look insane, I've yet to shoot one. If you can get the distance with a smaller package then go for it.

Whatever you do don't go travel for bluewater fish and take a reef gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
When you say 120, I guess you mean Band Stretch, but let's talk total length.

The Alemanni 115 Double Roller is 45"
Alemanni 130 Double Roller is 51"
Abellan 130 is 62"

When you say Bluewater, Do you mean like Wahoo and Tuna?

Those Alemanni's are amazing.

Everytime I get out in the Bluewater, the last thing I want is a Short gun. The other thing I don't want is a shaft under 5/16", and I want 20' of Kill Range as minimum.

For me, a 120 (call it 45"-50" total length) is just tooo short for Bluewater. It makes it harder to aim at a target in the distance in Clearwater. Over here in Hawaii where the Water is very Clear, people are very effective using 150cm guns which have actual length of 65-70" for Bluewater. I like a 54" gun on the Reef in Clear water.. I'm not talking Rollers.

But if you are looking for a Great 120 ie 45-50" total length for Bluewater, can't go wrong with an Alemanni. Those Carbons are particularly nice. I know 2Fishin2 is currently out putting one of them Carbonia Rollers through it's paces.. Those look promising. Interceptor is a new company which has a nice design. Those guns Nevin posts up here Gladiator Bestiarus, look sweet.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:23 PM   #11
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Re: Best 120

If you take a look at their site, the Carbon variant of the 115 Stilo DR handles up to a 9mm shaft. I saw the 120 hybrid shoot out to 7m accurately with a 9.5mm shaft on their Instagram not to long ago. The Stilo DR is 56” while the hybrid is 59”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydroid View Post
Wow, 45" on the Stilo 115, I had no idea so short. I wonder what shaft dia. those guys like Pete shooting, must be over 8mm maybe 8.5? I agree those Alemanni guns look amazing. I think guns start shrinking in clear bluewater.
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:31 AM   #12
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Re: Best 120

Rob, thanks for your reply, good information.

Last edited by hydroid; 06-13-2019 at 12:03 PM. Reason: getting back on topic
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:13 AM   #13
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Re: Best 120

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Ryan View Post
Nice of you to chime in!

Sorry, I’ll try and clear this up. I mean 120cm as barrel length like a standard euro gun. Most international flights in Europe limit luggage to 62”. The Albacore is roughly that length alone and even longer shafts making it a little bit too big for some international travel.

Jon, I can assure you that you’re wrong in your overall Alemanni length estimates. They do not measure their guns like you, in overall length, but more similarly to Abellan. The 115 Stilo Express DR is 56” and their new 120 Hybrid is 59” offering 123cm of band stretch. A friend of mine owns the 115 DR along with 2 other Alemanni’s with a 120 Hybrid on the way. Perhaps you got your measurements confused for their break down, travel versions?

I spoke with Harry and can’t wait for him to introduce a 120 Albacore with that Ermesub DR Trigger! That gun would fit the bill...

I remember my old Oceanborn 120 (I think it was an older euro version w/left side line release) was able to hold up to 4 bands and the muzzle was neutral with an 8.5mm, 160cm shaft! Unfortunately, I just couldn’t seem to control it with its low hand placement and long reach to the trigger.

Anybody know of a tradition gun, up to 58”, able to hold 3 14.5mm bands and be buoyant enough to handle an 8.5mm shaft? Would it be too much to ask for good handle geometry too?
I understand now, was not aware of that restriction.

And yes, Jon's measurements were wrong. 115 Alemanni is 56" (142cm), 120 is 59" (150cm), and 130 Bluewater Express is 63" (160cm) from Alemanni. All of which seem amazing, it is difficult to figure out what each is for and how they compare. So many variations.

I don't know a gun to fit your requirements exactly. The Abellan Denton 120, 132cm stretch is the reef gun I've shot for many years now. I just tested it the other day in the pool. Only had 2" of foam or so but with 2 15mm bands it shoots half way through at 20' even with an 8mm shaft. Not bad for a 2 band 57" gun.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

Also, will you be shooting slip-tip or double flopper?
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:18 PM   #14
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Re: Best 120

The restriction was foreign to me until someone mentioned it so I looked it up.
I shoot double floppers out here in Hawaii. One of my buddies regularly goes doggie hunting and says double flopper is the way to go since it slows down the fish.

He uses a Bleutec 130 King Cobra with an 8mm. That thing is sexy. He let me fondle it in the water and I was impressed with its balance. Unfortunately, nothing was around for target practice.

My partner has that exact same set up on his D120 (15mm bands @400% with a Hunt 8mm). That gun has more than made up for some less than ideal decision making on my part! It’s definitely one of the best guns I know of in that size range.

Nebula is my current 120cm. She has a Chinese cuttle shape 120cm barrel with a heavily modified d1 handle and Ermes DR trigger. I love the buoyancy! Still requires lead on both sides with an Hunt 8mm, 160cm double flopper. I use 15mm bands at @380%. I’ve run into a lot of issues with her having to use a few different handle and trigger combos, many coats of resin and sanding to get the track straight, not to mention adjustments to ballast every time I try a new shaft/band combo. I suppose I should do some target practice, but it’s hard to eliminate variables without a pool. I really want her to work out and she has great figures. She’s 56.5” with an average band stretch of 127cm and weighs in at 3.5# with no shaft or bands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castronova View Post
I understand now, was not aware of that restriction.

And yes, Jon's measurements were wrong. 115 Alemanni is 56" (142cm), 120 is 59" (150cm), and 130 Bluewater Express is 63" (160cm) from Alemanni. All of which seem amazing, it is difficult to figure out what each is for and how they compare. So many variations.

I don't know a gun to fit your requirements exactly. The Abellan Denton 120, 132cm stretch is the reef gun I've shot for many years now. I just tested it the other day in the pool. Only had 2" of foam or so but with 2 15mm bands it shoots half way through at 20' even with an 8mm shaft. Not bad for a 2 band 57" gun.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

Also, will you be shooting slip-tip or double flopper?
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:54 PM   #15
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Re: Best 120

After thinking about that Alemanni being 45", I figured those videos of Pete he must be a very tiny person in relationship to that gun, haha. Don't think he could be 5ft tall. Glad to get that straight.
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