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Diving Safety, Accidents and Incidents Post here to discuss accidents, incidents, ideas, gear, or anything else to improve spearfishing safety. Memorials and condolences threads should be placed in that separate forum.

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Old 09-24-2003, 10:48 AM   #16
Dangerous
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Chad,

The adjustable regulator would be the ultimate, but if you had a good serviceable non-adjustable reg, in your experience, would having it tuned down a little and using a scumball be a reasonable alternative.
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Old 09-24-2003, 02:13 PM   #17
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I have a totally adequate system that costs less than five bucks and doesnt wobble at all. Go to a marine supply store and get some large stainless hoseclamps, use them to strap a lenghth of stainless steel to the side of the pony; now pass the tank cam straps through this bracket. The pony remains connected to the straps of the BC, so you wont ever forget it behind, and its there if you ever need it.

I use a thirty cube every dive (other than a shore dive), the only reason is because i only want one pony, and this is the most versatile size to have. Great for cleaning boat bottoms, shore dives or to check out new sites, and as a deco mix holder and or bail out bottle.

I usually use 50% o2 , if this is safe is debatable. I dive air mostly as I dont have $ to convert to NO2; so use the gas primarily as a washout gas/ deco gas to decr my N burden. I never use it to extend dives, its there for an emergency or until Im safely on the anchorline near the surface where it becomes washout.

The danger, and a potential subject of debate, is if I ever needed it deeper than 60 feet is it safe to use? I am willing to risk the slight risk of OX TOX (unlikely, given the fact that if I am ever using it deep unless I am in an emergency and will likely rapidly ascend to shallow water therefore I will breath this mix for less than two minutes while deeper than 60 feet.) for the benefit of begining immediate washout of my NO2; as in an emergency I may be ascending a faster than would be ideal ideal especially if I have a panicked or ill diver with me.

This would be VERY dangerous in an overhead environment over 60 feet, such as on a deep wreck; where you may face prolonged exposure to the gas. An alternate source of AIR should be carried; On deep wreck penetrations double tanks should be warn, and the pony can still serve as washout gas in deco.
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Old 09-24-2003, 02:40 PM   #18
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Doc: with a 50% mix you have a partial pressure of 1.6 at 72.6 feet. So you should be good to that depth.
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Old 09-24-2003, 02:40 PM   #19
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Here is the setup I use on my stage bottle or Pony Bottle.

It is a Halcyon strap setup, I think it was made for the argon bottles but works real well with an al40 or smaller.

Tackle Shack has the setup for less than $60.00.
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Old 09-24-2003, 02:48 PM   #20
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This is the same set up on a set of HP 120 doubles, it also works well with 8" tanks.

Notice the 6" high pressure hose, it is easier to read with a single tank, but you can still see it with doubles as well.

Both ways the only time you notice the 40 is on the boat, once you are in the water it isn't really noticable at all.

I have used many different ways to attach stage bottles and so far this one is the best for me.
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Old 09-24-2003, 03:57 PM   #21
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I have a couple of budies who use the Dive Rite system with 30's and like them a lot.

One thing I didn't see in any of the posts: be careful which reg you put into your mouth when you roll into the water. I know this sounds like a no brainer but I did it. I have used a pony bottle on every dive for the last 5 years, and my old deco reg was the same color and shape as my primary. I put the deco reg in my mouth, put the primary in my BC holder, and over the side I went. I got to 170ft and hunted for about one minute before I started to have a hard time breathing. I promptly switched regs and realized what I had done. After this incident, my deco reg is marked different from my primary. Luckily I dive air in my pony bottle so O2 tox was not an issue.
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Old 09-24-2003, 04:03 PM   #22
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When I use a high 02 mix in the stage bottle I bag the second stage, that way you will not grab it and breath on it by mistake
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Old 09-24-2003, 06:18 PM   #23
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I know of an experienced and respected divemaster in NY that DIED that way crewing in thirty five feet of water. He was tying in the hook; working pretty hard and when his pony was finished off so was he; never had time to find his primary reg.

My primary is silver and around my neck on a rudder strap. Always there if it falls. My pony reg is yellow and clipped across my chest with a gate clip; always. No confusion.
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Old 09-24-2003, 07:11 PM   #24
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As a part time cave diver I’d say I have a little more than a casual interest in dive safety. That said, I have yet to see any type of pony bottle setup that I would trust my life with. My solution has been to simply exercise discipline and avoid putting my self in a position where I would ever need one. I do 120’ for 20 on an 80 and get back in the boat with 1000psi. (enough gas remaining for my buddy and I to do another ascent and a 5-min safety stop from 120’). I think staying longer creates more problems than a pony can solve, so when I do plan to dive deep, or get into an overhead (decompression) environment, I use doubles and stages and proper gasses (volumes and mixes) to decrease the risks and increase the safety margins. BTW if you suck an 80 “dry” at 120’ you still have enough gas remaining to do a controlled and safe ascent. *

*Note: Your mileage may vary. Results obtained using professional drivers on a closed course.
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Old 09-24-2003, 07:38 PM   #25
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I use old steel 30s or al40s slung as a stage if I am going deeper.For long dives I wear doubles.If you absolutely have to wear it on your back please put it on the side and not piggybacked straight out.A really good chance of having Murphy either hit the valve rolling it off,snagging it on something,bumping it on ledges and in wrecks.I am not a big guy at 5'10 190 but I have no problems with it slung under my arm,even digging for lobster.The guage is on a 6" hose and right where I can see it.I use DIN valves for security and lower profile.A MK2 R380 SP works fine.When wearing doubles it becomes deco gas stage.You can maybe make it from 135' with a sucked dry 80 but you'll only do it once cause the headache you get from your ass puckering cuts off the flow of blood to your head,at least it did to me.Seafood ain't worth your life.
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Old 09-24-2003, 08:48 PM   #26
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Pony

My 13cf pony zipps upside down inside my ZEAGLE Ranger LTD
BC.The valve sticks 1 to 2" out of the bottom on my BC.The valve
is easy to reach and turn on.I use a small reg. with a very small
pressure gage .5" dia 1" long.The system zipps in to the BC
in less than 10 sec.I will make a point to use it a lot more.
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Old 09-24-2003, 11:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by 100days-a-year
You can maybe make it from 135' with a sucked dry 80 but you'll only do it once cause the headache you get from your ass puckering cuts off the flow of blood to your head,at least it did to me.Seafood ain't worth your life.
Not meaning to challenge you guys, but for those who may not be as experienced, you can make it back from 135' on a dry 80cf tank safely...........only under the absolute best of conditions. It better be the first dive of the day when you are not saturated. You better not have a big stringer of fish or other factors that may cause exertion. You better conserve air from the moment you feel resistance. Ya better be in good shape and well rested, and so on. And ya better hope you dont get shallow water blackout.

What I am saying, is that one of the biggest mistakes a scuba diver could make, in my opinion, is to start thinking you can get back to the boat after sucking your tanks dry. I learned the hard way.

I head for the surface when I hit 1000 lbs, just like they taught ya in class. Get a bigger tank if you want to dive longer, but dont push the limits.
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Old 09-25-2003, 12:31 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by 100days-a-year
You can maybe make it from 135' with a sucked dry 80 but you'll only do it once cause the headache you get from your ass puckering cuts off the flow of blood to your head,at least it did to me.Seafood ain't worth your life.
D$"M skippy! 19 years ago I sucked my 80 dry at ninety feet and besides pissing my wetsuit all the way up (and the divemaster bitching at me for the rest of the day) I was unhurt. Young and stupid, but very lucky. I still remember the feeling when I realized what had happened, just as if it was yesterday and it took about two weeks for my ass to unpucker.
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Old 09-25-2003, 01:16 PM   #29
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Pony

I use a 30 c f pony with adjustable reg. Brian at Action Aquatics set it up. After tinkering with the adjustment to get it right (hence Spearchucker's kind return of my lost pony) I have settled on a single strap cam and metal mounting bracket. Once the cam activates, it is on solid. It is very similar to Kitefisherman's but without the fancy pin release. I noticed that Kitfisherman has his pony upside down, mine is rightside up. I'm considering adding a second strap.

One thing of critical importance. Make sure you securely afix your pony reg somewhere it can't be pulled loose and away from you when you need it. Be particularly cautions of it getting stuck on coral or rock when you poke you body in somewhere to shoot a holed up grouper. That happend to me on the JRII. It resulted in my pony reg getting stuck behind my back between my main tank and the pony. Seeing my pony gauge read full but not having access to that air was maddening. I could not get to the reg or find out where it was stuck. I made the mistake of not immediately taking both tanks off. I used up the air in my bc trying to fix the gear. I then made another mistake of grabing my 2nd octo and oraly clearing it thinking that it was my pony reg. This was a mental error due to some panic setting it. Still I could not get that darn reg loose. I started to feel like I would black out, and that was my que to test my skills making an emergency ascent from 96 feet, bone dry on air. I chose not to drop my weights but rather kicked like a sob to the surface and tried to suck air out of a dry tank as it expanded to the ascent. It was a hell of a swim, but slower and a bit more controlled than if I dropped my weights I was diving a HP 80, so I only got a little bit of a breath from expansion somewhere between 30 and 60 feet. I did not find out exactly what went wrong (where the reg was stuck) until after I got to the surface.

I do not plan on ever having to do that again. There is a lot I could have done different in that situation. But, the few things I did to kept me from a more unpleasant result. I now have a clip sytem that holds the pony reg right under my chin. I can even get my mouth on it without using my hands if need be. I've taken the time during a recent dive to,several times in a row, practice getting off all my gear and reassembling it on the ocean floor.
As long as my pony is working, its coming with me.

I realy thought I was going to die that day--- all alone. I've been in other types of non-diving situations before where my survival was in serious doubt (motocycle accidents, etc.) . But, the prospect of death, all alone under the sea, with no body for my wife to bury, realy shook me up. My boat mates that day can attest to how freeaked I was.

I'm sure I'm not alone in having such an expierence that sheds insigint into Carson's last minutes. Each of us who have, know that it must have been a terrible way for Carson to go.

Kudos to all the guys who quickly got me on o2 and assured me that everything would be ok. In particular, thanks Seastakler for taking me back down for and wathchig me during my safety/deco stop, Shooter Dan and Jim for getting me on O2, and Dangerous for playing doc.

I'm not to proud to admit that I shed few tears of joy after I realized I wasn't going to be bent, and that I made it.



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Old 09-25-2003, 03:59 PM   #30
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Thanks for sharing that Webers.
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