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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 07-29-2020, 11:17 PM   #16
spearq8
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

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Originally Posted by Diver278 View Post
On a Pathos Sniper R 85 would you use a 14mm or 14.5mm small id?
On a roller I am not really sure 14 or 14.5mm are best. For the roller I think your best bet is thick band with minimum pre-stretch ... I would even go as high as 18mm. At least that is what worked best in testing. If you use thin bands with a roller then you have to have high pre-stretch to gain power ... which tends to push the shaft down. If you go classic setup then for sure the 14mm bands will work really well with the light 6.75mm to 7mm shafts and will actually outperform the roller setup on the Sniper.
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:25 AM   #17
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

Thanks spearq8 for the feed back. I’ll try some 16mm small id and see how it shoots although I have not had an problems with the 14mm small id it shoots great and accurate. I was just courious about the difference between the 14mm and 14.5mm.
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:38 AM   #18
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

Mako bands are very good and well priced. 14.5 mm will work fine.
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Old 07-30-2020, 11:13 AM   #19
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

Thanks I’ll go ahead and try it.
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Old 07-31-2020, 04:14 PM   #20
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

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I would even go as high as 18mm.
That was tested by you? I'm using 14 mm on the only roller I made yet. I was thinking of going to 19 mm to avoid going the way of the double roller. Talking about regular roller...
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:07 AM   #21
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

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That was tested by you? I'm using 14 mm on the only roller I made yet. I was thinking of going to 19 mm to avoid going the way of the double roller. Talking about regular roller...

Yes I tested this and worked best for roller. The point is to try and avoid tail flip of the shaft by the wishbone as the shaft exits the track. This tail flip causes shots to dive down and you lose accuracy. To prevent that you need to have minimum pre-stretch possible. Now if you have minimum pre-stretch you would need the maximum power you can put on your setup without pre-stretch and that would require a thicker band as the thinner bands will only give you the power you need if you have a lot of pre-stretch. If properly setup your roller will then shoot straight and accurate and not have tail flip. But of course you might sacrifice some power. In my testing on rollers around 85 to 105cm, I could not get better performance than 2 x 14mm or 2 x 14.5mm classic setup. That doesn't mean that this cannot change but it means that with present design setups of rollers this is the case. I do think the rollers can be designed better and maybe prevent tail lift even with high pre-stretch. This would require a way to stop the wishbone before tail flip. I have already seen that on invert rollers but haven't seen that implemented with normal rollers.

You can check out this video I made few years back. I have done more tests since but not put out the videos. If you look at Mannisub rollers they now use 18mm small ID bands on his roller setup ... so at least he is convinced of that and he probably has the best performing roller kit.


Last edited by spearq8; 08-01-2020 at 02:18 AM.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:24 AM   #22
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

You can avoid the tail flip in different ways. Reducing pre-stretch is the worst way in my opinion, as you loose too much power.

Best solution I found was filing the last sharkfin almost leaving it vertical, so the wishbone leaves it at the end of the run without pulling the shaft tail up.
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Old 08-02-2020, 01:47 PM   #23
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

While shooting at targets I noticed that my roller was shooting high and to the right. The high part comes with the roller I guess. The shooting right had me puzzled since I'm right handed...

Then I noticed I was not holding the handle perfectly straight... so the shooting high translated to shooting right... Those rollers are a bit of a challenge lol. It simply doesn't matter how I hold my traditional guns..
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Old 08-04-2020, 09:26 PM   #24
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

Just a comment about bands. We recently put new bands on my son's gun which uses two bands. One band was the MAKO pink and the other the MAKO Blue latex.

The performance was fine, but I really liked how the two different colors were very discernible - even at depth. this makes loading the gun and dealing with the shooting line etc., just a little bit easier. It also makes unloading easier if you intentionally (or accidentally) stacked two bands on one shark fin.

I thought it looked pretty cool too.
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:59 AM   #25
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

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https://www.makospearguns.com/Spearg...e-p/mbr-bk.htm

https://www.makospearguns.com/Spearg.../mbr-sm145.htm

Speargun Bands by Primeline Industries - Latex Tubing


MAKO Spearguns power bands are recognized worldwide as the best speargun power bands in the world. This is because they are produced for us by Primeline Industries of Akron Ohio.

If it is not made by Primeline, it is an inferior speargun power band.

Warning: The quality of the MAKO Spearguns power bands is so high that there are reports of persons selling counterfeit MAKO Spearguns Power Bands. That is why we now put our name directly on the bands, ensuring you are getting 100% Genuine Primeline latex tubing made specifically for MAKO Spearguns.

Warning: Not all Latex Tubing is the same. If it is not made by Primeline it is lower quality latex. This due to Primeline avoiding the mastication process employed by other manufacturers by only using liquid latex. Their continuous dip process results in a superior base product with superior physical properties including greater tear resistance

- an essential characteristic in providing strength and performance to speargun bands. When compared to other manufacturing processes, Primeline’s continuous dip process is far more time consuming and labor intensive, but the result is the best speargun power bands.

We use only the highest quality factories and material for all of our spearfishing and freediving gear. But, because we sell direct to divers, instead of through dive shops, we can sell it for les
s.

I purchased some 14.5mm rubber from you for my “big fish gun”, but I do wish you also carried 14mm.


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Old 08-09-2020, 05:30 AM   #26
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

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That is an easy one ... Primeline repeatedly beats everything I try out.
Do you try Kent elastomer??
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Old 08-19-2020, 12:54 AM   #27
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

Hmm, Primeline rubber via China! 3 *16MM Primeline Speargun Band Sling Diving Rubber Natural Latex Tubing Black
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3-16MM-P.../173890276562?
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Old 08-19-2020, 03:55 PM   #28
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
Yes I tested this and worked best for roller. The point is to try and avoid tail flip of the shaft by the wishbone as the shaft exits the track. This tail flip causes shots to dive down and you lose accuracy. To prevent that you need to have minimum pre-stretch possible. Now if you have minimum pre-stretch you would need the maximum power you can put on your setup without pre-stretch and that would require a thicker band as the thinner bands will only give you the power you need if you have a lot of pre-stretch. If properly setup your roller will then shoot straight and accurate and not have tail flip. But of course you might sacrifice some power. In my testing on rollers around 85 to 105cm, I could not get better performance than 2 x 14mm or 2 x 14.5mm classic setup. That doesn't mean that this cannot change but it means that with present design setups of rollers this is the case. I do think the rollers can be designed better and maybe prevent tail lift even with high pre-stretch. This would require a way to stop the wishbone before tail flip. I have already seen that on invert rollers but haven't seen that implemented with normal rollers.

You can check out this video I made few years back. I have done more tests since but not put out the videos. If you look at Mannisub rollers they now use 18mm small ID bands on his roller setup ... so at least he is convinced of that and he probably has the best performing roller kit.

http://youtu.be/UBNw4PLqPfI
This was one of the reasons I jumped to inverts and never tried regular rollers. That being said, most of my partners run classic rollers and do very well shooting fish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by renepotvin View Post
While shooting at targets I noticed that my roller was shooting high and to the right. The high part comes with the roller I guess. The shooting right had me puzzled since I'm right handed...

Then I noticed I was not holding the handle perfectly straight... so the shooting high translated to shooting right... Those rollers are a bit of a challenge lol. It simply doesn't matter how I hold my traditional guns..
Did you ever figure out why you're shooting high? I ask because sometimes I too am shooting on the high side. I thought it was just me, but noticed your comment.

To contribute to this thread, my bands have been either Primeline or the SpearPro bands from Petros. I'm aiming to head back to Primeline with Mako. No complaints with either.
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Old 08-21-2020, 09:51 PM   #29
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
Hmm, Primeline rubber via China! 3 *16MM Primeline Speargun Band Sling Diving Rubber Natural Latex Tubing Black
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3-16MM-P.../173890276562?


Primeline does make a standard ID rubber and while I only have small ID rubber from them - I haven’t yet seen that cold, grayish color for the core.
There’s a lot of really bad rubber being made in China so I’d say there’s a fair risk this listing is selling fake Primeline. But let me check with my chinese friend who actually imports quite a bit of high end gear to China.


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Old 08-22-2020, 07:38 AM   #30
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Re: Who makes the best rubber

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Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
Primeline does make a standard ID rubber and while I only have small ID rubber from them - I haven’t yet seen that cold, grayish color for the core. There’s a lot of really bad rubber being made in China so I’d say there’s a fair risk this listing is selling fake Primeline. But let me check with my chinese friend who actually imports quite a bit of high end gear to China.
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From my experience the China made tubing is very poor as the modulus is not stable. It gets very hard quickly and this greatly restricts the elasticity/stretching ability of the tubing. It’s been a quite a few years since I tried it but Jay Riffe told me that he had a similar experience with it.
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