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Old 01-15-2017, 12:56 AM   #1
skygear
          
 
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Lightbulb Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

Saw a video awhile back and went to finally pull the trigger on making our own bands. Looked for the camo bands and came up empty. Anyone have a lead on them?

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Old 01-15-2017, 05:42 AM   #2
kwtony
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Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

One could get amber bands and easily dye them with some different color RIT and a sponge...I dont shoot Amber bands but ill add some on my weekly Petros Spear America orders for fun....truth be told, some guns could use a little pick me up (ya know for the wall hangers) and my only other option was to go with a custom color. Seems like these days some companies are buying custom colors in the 14mm small id bands now. From my understanding you have to put 1000 feet order min for this, so it takes a little leap of faith. I wish someone would buy a batch of pink bands...aheh*petros*ahem....I know porker and I would be the first two buyers for sure....

They would certainly match my sweet shirt and my lucky pink fins...


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Old 01-15-2017, 10:12 AM   #3
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Re: Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

I'm going to get in touch with these guys and see what they come back with

http://www.kentelastomer.com/latex-t...l-data-sheets/

What do you think, K-911 material? I'll touch base with them monday and see what the MOQ's are. We are turning a 22' trailer into a wood working shop to do some spears for ourselves and a few friends that have been bothering me for a year about them. Having to turn out 15 guns is a great motivational factor. Having some unique rubber for them would be interesting.

1. Green camo
2. Hot Pink
3. Hot Pink with breast cancer permissions on it? (Of course would donate to them, family have had/ are survivors)
4. possibly Pink camo so we don't have to order 2 colors?

16mm?
14mm?

Last edited by skygear; 01-15-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:17 AM   #4
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Re: Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

Talk to uncle petros about the band options. hes a wealth of info on this subject. I agree and support this project as well..
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:32 AM   #5
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Re: Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

Black internal band, with the color on the outside bonded protectant layer. Pink/black would look better than the pink/amber
I'll ask petros to chime in.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:36 AM   #6
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Re: Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

Whatever color you choose i can say that using a natural color inside will ensure that not only you have the purest rubber possible, but that it stays consistent as well...

Color/amber is what I suggest.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:42 AM   #7
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Re: Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

Understood. I'll see what http://ww5.komen.org says about licensing issues with their logo etc. Monday too.

Quote:
K-911 is our newest technology in rubber tubing. It offers similar physical properties as natural rubber with three times the resistance to weathering from ozone and UV light. If your tubing application demands strength, memory, and is exposed to the elements, K-911 may be the answer you have been looking for. Listed below are additional benefits offered by K-911:

� reduction of cracking around fittings
� better vapor and gas permeability than natural rubber
� improved chemical resistance over natural rubber
� color matches available
� superior weather resistance over natural rubber
http://www.kentelastomer.com/wp-cont.../MDS-K-911.pdf
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:29 AM   #8
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Re: Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

Taken from this thread http://www.spearfishing.com.au/sf-fo...yths-and-Facts

Quote:
Default Speargun Bands Myths and Facts
How often do you wonder about the kind of rubber you use on your gun?

I am always looking for an edge to improve my chances so I did some extensive calling and research and here is what I came up with. I preface my following remakes with the fact that I am not a scientist or engineer. Just an old retired guy who loves to spearfish. So this information is only my rational analysis of the information I gathered.

My conclusions are based on my research, conversations with Primeline Industries, knowledgeable authorities, and my own humble ignorant opinion.

1. Basic Premise: Primeline makes the best and most consistent rubber tubing worldwide and is generally acknowledged as the leader in producing the best spear gun rubber available.

Some of my finding is kind of sac religious and contrary to the accepted company line of our own community members and dealers. Resellers hawk differences to differentiate their product as unique and superior. In other words there is a lot of sales hype going on in my opinion. It’s a business no harm in that.

Myths and facts

Establishment axiom #1
Dealers tout the fact that they have fresh rubber as a selling point since they assert that it degenerates quickly.

Primeline Industries Says “Rubber stored correctly out of sunlight with no exposure to ozone at a temp between 50 and 80 degrees has a shelf life of say 30 years. In fact according to the experts it become stronger over the course of a year as it continues to cure. At which point it is at its strongest. It then remains stable for decades if stored properly at a fairly constant strength.

Once a band is tied pressure is stressing the band at the point of the ties. That is the point when the degeneration clock starts ticking. Bulk rubber untied and properly stored would still be viable for years.

Establishment axiom #2
Dealers tout the fact that their rubber that has a thin black outer walls covering and an amber core as the best of both world because it prevents UV break down and still uses the unadulterated amber inside for purer rubber. Since amber has no dye the resin does not dilute it.

Resin is added to the rubber compound to produce the color. Rubber made without any resin is somewhat amber. Since amber is translucent they can make adjustments during production to produce a slightly better and more consistent rubber tube. If it has resin mixed in it’s a one shot deal and no adjustments are made.

According to Primeline Industries so little resin is added even in solid black tubing that the difference between it and pure amber is very marginal if in fact detectable. The force calculator does not register a significance difference between color and non-colored latex tubing.

It could still be argued that amber was purer and therefore slightly superior. As for the breakdown of the rubber by UV rays it happens slowly and there is no data to show a black outer wall or pure black latex tube is a deterrent in the speed of deterioration of rubber tubing. I understand this is a commonly held belief I am just saying there is no data to support. It. Doesn't mean it isn't so.

I understand that some divers advocate for storing their rubber bands in the freezer to prolong its life. Primeline experts suggest that actually storing it in the freezer could allow ice crystals to form inside it and actually do some possible harm. Better of in the lower compatment if you subscribe to that belief system.

Establishment axiom #3
The most common ID in rubber latex tubes used in spearguns in the 1/8”. The ID is the inside diameter of the rubber tubing. (The little hole in the middle). In a typical 5/8” band the outside diameter would be 5/8” then the inside wall on the right side would be ¼”, the hole 1/8”, and the left side wall would be ¼” for a total of 5/8”. Some Europeans are going to a 1/16” ID this makes the outer wall slightly thicker. The benefit suggested is two fold more rubber and a smaller inner hold to retain water. I plotted it out on the Primeline force calculator and it registers a 3% increase in power. About two pounds additional pull.

This 1/16 ID is not widely available in the USA but is becoming more of a standard in Europe. It is more costly and requires a special run from Primeline with larger minimum quantity order then the standard regular 5/8” x 1/8” ID rubber.

Is it worth it? Well I ordered some and have enough to make a set for my Wong 55” GR gun but no opinion since it untested. Still it is fun to experiment. However costly.

What about Rob Allen bands, or the Blue colored ones from Mako? Or the red ones from Hammerhead. Well I called Mako they said is no performance difference between its Primeline black tubing (Currently 5/8” x 1/8” $2.70 a foot) and its Primeline Blue colored latex bands. (Currently 5/8” x 1/8” $4.38 a foot) That is a difference of $1.68 a foot. Do you think a fish cares what color band you shot him with?

All bands made by Primeline use the exact same compound. It doesn’t matter what color resin they use. The may have different specs such as the thickness variance of the outer blue wall vs. the amber core wall size and the currently emerging ID 1/16 hole but in the end it is all the same materials just arranged in varying configurations and colors.

The placebo effect is exploited because we believe if it costs a lot more it has to be superior and functionally much better. The resin added is almost negligable and as a result technically the cheapest Primeline rubber you can find no matter how it is packaged will be the best you can get. A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Many of you will be certain and just plain know for a fact that the rubber latex you are using is the best and better certainly the pure black. You experience and gut will just know it is. I ask that you step back and reflect no matter how successful you are with your current setup that maybe just maybe you are that good and could kill fish with a tire inner tube.

Some companies buy in such large quantities they get a seriously low price on the rubber (5000 ft. at a time). and can sell it to you almost or even cheaper than if you purchased directly from Primline. Primeline will sell directly to you but you need a minimum order of 100 feet and the price at that level of bulk order would be $2.54 cents a foot for 5/8” x 1/8” ID (Amber, Black/Amber, and pure black) same price. If you wanted to try the new 1/16” ID hold that is 5/8” x 1/16 you would need to order a minimum of 100 feet at a cost of 2.97 per foot.

Well there you have what I discovered and love it or hate it I just sayin.
Quote:
The guys at adreno told me yesterday that salt degenerates the rubber. Any idea how significant that is? Is it worth trying to stretch the rubber in the muzzle when rinsing to get the salt off that area? That seems to suffer more than where I tie it off on the bridle, I think because it is a longer stretch of rubber. Is it worth trying to lubricate the muzzle so you don't get friction damage to the rubber?
Quote:
Thats a point I did not address. Not only do you have the salt water issue but the rubber is under constant stress (300% to 350% elongation) while we hunt for fish. Tests have shown that after just a few hours of such stress it doesn't return to it exact original length. Some have even gone as far as suggesting that you pre-stretch it and then cut it to the correct size. I am not a fan of that school of thought. Seems to me you would just begin the breaking down process sooner.

Certainly a good fresh water rinse is in order. Not sure if stretching it would facilitate a more through cleaning. As for lubricating the rubber Primeline Industries does suggest that it will prolong the life of the rubber. The issue then becomes trying to load a rubber with lube on it.

Silicones get on everything. They spread to hands, equipment anything that it comes in contact with.

The solvent based McLube 1775 dries quickly and because of that will not effect the rubber. Still I doubt if the advantage gained is worth the hassle. I just change my bands when that start to show signs of wear.
Quote:
I meant that because the rubber is jammed up in the muzzle, there will be a contact area that does not get rinsed properly.

re: stretch - that explains why I always seem to be cutting my rubber shorter, even though I get new rubbers cut to the same length as the old ones.
Quote:
You have a point. That of course is an area that is under some of the greatest stress and usually where bands start to show signs of wear and cracks besides the area where the wishbone is tied at the ends. I don't see how it would hurt to pull them aside to rinse them but use some soap to lube the band because the stress placed on the muzzle can snap it when you tork it to slide it to one side.
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:52 AM   #9
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Re: Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

For some reason small ID bands perform better ... not sure why as the additional amount of rubber is negligible ... but I think it changes how fast bands contract in the water. If I was looking to develop a better band material, one of the most important factors would be to find something that gives you faster band contraction. That would change the entire performance envelope. At the moment you can only push a shaft as fast as the bands contract ... change that and you change everything.
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Old 01-16-2017, 04:39 AM   #10
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Re: Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

I will definitely be in on pink band material!
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:14 PM   #11
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Re: Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

I have some. Primeline used to make some 7-10 yrs back. Brought it to some Spearfishing Meets to show off and there was zero interest. Never pursued it further.

Call Primeline and talk to Don Zarle.
Last time I talked to him about it they quit making it. But they're the ones who came up with the procedure. It's labor intensive and around double the cost and I think a Min of 10,000' order.
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Old 01-16-2017, 03:13 PM   #12
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Re: Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

You also can dye rubber. Ive dye 1000's of feet of it and it can even be tie dyed to some degree.

Buy amber rubber, use Rit dry dye, heat water to 190°. Dump you rubber in and cook it for hours. this is the odd part. I use Primeline and Kent and it doesn't matter which one I use they take color differently batch to batch. Sometime its a couple of hours, to 8hrs.

It also speeds up the cure time if you happen to purchase fresh rubber from the manufacture. Fresh rubber should sit for awhile before use or if you kettle cook it gets a better pop and has less memory. No proof other then years of dying it.

You can also paint it with rubber paint. The costume world has a lot of good info.
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Old 01-16-2017, 04:10 PM   #13
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Re: Where are the CAMO Bands!!!?!/

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwtony View Post
One could get amber bands and easily dye them with some different color RIT and a sponge...I dont shoot Amber bands but ill add some on my weekly Petros Spear America orders for fun....truth be told, some guns could use a little pick me up (ya know for the wall hangers) and my only other option was to go with a custom color. Seems like these days some companies are buying custom colors in the 14mm small id bands now. From my understanding you have to put 1000 feet order min for this, so it takes a little leap of faith. I wish someone would buy a batch of pink bands...aheh*petros*ahem....I know porker and I would be the first two buyers for sure....

They would certainly match my sweet shirt and my lucky pink fins...


those are some really cool looking spearguns you got there! what kind are those? I can't quite read the labels - do you like them?
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