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Diving Safety, Accidents and Incidents Post here to discuss accidents, incidents, ideas, gear, or anything else to improve spearfishing safety. Memorials and condolences threads should be placed in that separate forum.

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Old 04-08-2014, 11:04 AM   #1
UnkleFidel
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Got wrapped

Just thought I would share this incident as it has caused me to want to practice safer diving.

After diving ledges around 40ft all morning and only getting only one trigger I decided to jump in at some shallower rocks around 20ft to see if anything was around. My buddy was a bit spent and decided to stay in the boat. Immediately finding a decent Cubera I popped him after a quick chase under an overhang, the shaft passed through his belly. Knowing he could tear through I let some line loose on the reel and surfaced to vent before going in to grab him. Meanwhile the Cube had tangled the double wrapped shaft line up in the coral and was stuck tugging at the line through his belly. I descended, grabbed the fish and began unwrapping the line through the rocks. Because I dropped early to avoid losing the fish and he had tangled it up really well, I did not finish clearing the line and attempted to surface. In the mess that had formed some line had wrapped around the weight on my back, and still being jammed up on the rocks below prevented my surfacing.
All I had to do was drop the weight belt and I was free, I surfaced, tearing the fish free as well. I kept my life, my cool, my equipment and my dinner, but I learned that things can go south really quick, even on an easy dive in familiar structure, with familiar equipment.
I hear it over and over again but no fish is worth your life, and the most important part of every dive trip is coming home alive, uninjured. Practice one up one down and watch out for each other, even in shallow familiar water, all it takes is one small mistake.
The more comfortable I get the less I worry about safety, but what if the same thing happened at sixty feet, and it wasn't my belt but my foot, arm, or neck do I have time to saw through a shaft line with my knife?
I know I'm going to try and be a bit safer out there.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:21 AM   #2
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Re: Got wrapped

Thanks go the reminder. Loose rope always scares me no matter how innocent the situation is at first. I never brush up against loose lines wether at the surface or at the bottom or navigating between .
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:21 PM   #3
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Re: Got wrapped

Thanks a lot for this report. This is exactly why I gave up reels for float lines. Reel line underwater is a tangle waiting to happen, like it did to you. Consider switching to a float line, and this is much less likely to happen, provided you use a stiff vinyl one, and not a piece of floating rope.

Good point on the buddy. He should have been there. Good decision on dropping the weight belt. Not only is no fish worth your life, no weight belt is either.

Glad you are safe.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:06 PM   #4
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Re: Got wrapped

Thank you so much for sharing, sobering . It happens so fast, most plans go out the window.

Now we can wait for the usual supermen to chime in and try to obscure the fact, had you been diving with a float. Likely this would not have happened as it did.

It only takes one mishap followed by one bad decision to cost you your life.

I think recommending a reel to anyone other than a very advanced diver is irresponsible. Your story reinforces this for me
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:09 PM   #5
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Re: Got wrapped

Very glad you are ok. ! Stay safe.

I have been stopped inches from reaching the surface In 15 feet of water by one wrap of reel line around my pinky finger.

Reels= more nasty variables that can creep up on you
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:35 PM   #6
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Re: Got wrapped

easily could have happened with a float, actually it is arguably more likely to be entangled by a line that you are CONSTANTLY alongside
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:40 PM   #7
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Re: Got wrapped

Here we go again.
Unless you are diving in kelp A stiff floating float line used properly, presents far LESS of a hazard. No matter how you rationalize it. Tell yourself whatever makes you feel better. Just don't expect others that have actual realworld experience to believe you. Preaching a reel as gospel to novice divers is irresponsible. Do as you wish. This is just my 2c. It's worth the price you paid for it
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:03 PM   #8
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Re: Got wrapped

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Originally Posted by xrispearo View Post
easily could have happened with a float, actually it is arguably more likely to be entangled by a line that you are CONSTANTLY alongside
A floatline would tend to float. It most definitely is less likely to make small turns and wrap around small things like a weight on a belt. Most reel line will sink or is so near neutral that is has the same effect. These attributes make it more of an entanglement hazard than a floatline. There is a huge difference.

The diver should have dropped his belt, he should have had a buddy and..... it is hard to make generalizations because every situation is different... but in that situation, my goal (after resting on the surface) would be to drop down, grab the fish and kill it.

That would be the entire mission for my dive. If I felt really good and the kill went well, then I MIGHT try to recover the fish on the same dive...but probably not.

When I have a tangled mess, I like to kill the fish. Then the chance of losing the fish is very low, except for sharks or jewfish. If a freediver tries to untangle a strong, poorly shot fish, and he looses his grip on it, the fish could easily swim around him, wrap him to the bottom, take a loop around the mask and then pop that off too. Even a small fish (on a line) can make a huge problem.

If I thought the tangled fish was going to be any problem at all, I will normally take a second gun down and try to deliver a kill shot. It may make more of a mess, but the fish will be dead. If I can get my hands on it easily, I may use a knife to kill the fish.

I think these kinds of close calls and the discussion of them are one of the more worthwhile uses of this board.

In a recent dive in the bahamas, my son went down (about the same depth) and shot a grouper in the hole with a slip tip on a pole spear. The fish popped out another hole maybe 5-6 feet away and was tethered by the slip tip and was swimming strongly. The grouper had drug the pole spear further under the ledge behind him.

My son had been down a little while, so I went down to support him. On the descent I saw the grouper pop out of the hole and my son was trying to grab it. On this dive, I did exactly what I described...I grabbed the fish, signaled "loudly" for my son to ascend, and I stabbed the fish in the head and killed it. I DEMANDED that my son ascend because he was down a while and I did NOT want him to be involved in an attempted recovery of the fish on this dive after he had been down a while.

I had some more breathhold time to try to work the fish, but I left. The fish was killed. The next diver in our team went down and tugged on the grouper, the pole spear easily slipped through the rocks and he had a super simple recovery. I remember thinking "why didn't I do that" but the reason is that I am so very focused on the necessary sequence and that starts with killing the fish.. Well that's the way I do stuff anyway.

Relevant portion of the video is at 1:45

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Old 04-08-2014, 07:08 PM   #9
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Re: Got wrapped

ive seen some nice thick float lines that wont twist but some will!

like I said, diving next to ANY line is dangerous. If you think about it, any line next to a diver is basically a spiders web waiting to happen I don't care how much memory it has or what.

ive had a float line tangle almost 100% of the time around my weights while diviing with one. so how safe is that? imagine if that then wraped around a fish or a rock. The less line your next to the better you are as a diver. float lines don't always float and most become crap after 3 years
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:12 PM   #10
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Re: Got wrapped

a lot of people up here and in a few videos ive seen people will shoot a fish and then hand line the fish to the surface. this creates a huge mess of line behind you (at the surface though) the same thing happened here but underwater. tight lines save lives so a good float line is definitely a good choice
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:16 PM   #11
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Re: Got wrapped

Spearooo is a big advocate of float lines...I don't necessarily disagree completely. I think that like xrispearo said, any line can be dangerous. As far as being tangled around something small like a weight/knife/mask the reel like is more likely...but because a float line is usually running alongside your body, it runs a high risk of wrapping around your foot/fin (I've had this happen multiple times). The best advice in this thread is to keep a TIGHT line, which in my opinion is easier to do with a reel. Shoot the fish and ascend, either pulling it up on a tight line and good shot or have it hole up with a poor shot. At the surface you should tighten the reel line and breathe up, then have your buddy hold the line tight while you follow it down to kill the fish (I like jfjf's advice to kill and save the retrieval for another dive). The OP made the mistake of diving alone thus forcing him to have a loose gun/reel line to get wrapped up in. I have a few videos of my retrieving fish with a reel and if done correctly it is clear that there is no chance of it tangling (assuming the fish is dead), I will try to process them and post in this thread.
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Old 04-09-2014, 12:49 PM   #12
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Re: Got wrapped

I have never thought too much about the dangers of a reel and am learning a lot. I have been entangled once by my cheap braided line, luckily survived, and have since upgraded to the vinyl float lines. Makes a huge difference in safety to me.



Edit/addition: Have not been entangled in my vinyl float line once. The braided lines come in your way all the time. Vinly lines are more expensive than braided lines, but that money extremely well spent.

Thanks to jfjf for the video and great comment!

Last edited by Bostondiver; 04-09-2014 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:10 PM   #13
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Re: Got wrapped

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostondiver View Post
I have never thought too much about the dangers of a reel and am learning a lot. I have been entangled once by my cheap braided line, luckily survived, and have since upgraded to the vinyl float lines. Makes a huge difference in safety to me.

Times 5,000.

Braided float lines (aka floating ropes) are death traps. Vinyl float lines are amazingly safe and tangle free.

Bostondiver nailed it.
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:37 AM   #14
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Re: Got wrapped

Both are dangerous if you do things the wrong way. Float lines scare me as much as reel lines in certain situations.

I've been down many times with a float line that was wrapped around me somewhere... knife, weight, fin, neck... and was very happy I didn't happen to shoot. I absolutely hate dragging a line beside me that is why I use a reel.

Reels can also be dangerous if you do not manage the line properly. The drag needs to be locked down if rocked up or if you are starting to pull your way up the line on a running fish. When you are pulling in line swim away from it so you are not in the mess, very simple.

If it's rocked up, like Justin said, have your buddy keep the line tight. Always undo the tangle before you get the fish and if you can kill the fish before that although its not always possible.

Any rope can end your life but only if you make a mistake. And it won't be the ropes fault, they aren't that smart.


Chris, glad nothing serious happened. This must have been right after I ran into you?
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:37 AM   #15
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Re: Got wrapped

hmmmmmm...

A sharp knife and a practiced approach to getting it with either hand is a must. My favorite place for a knife is front center of the weight belt hanging in front of your balls. You know where those are all the time. I also like to keep a secondary knife, a small one, even a sharp kitchen knife in a homemade low profile sheath inside my sleeve. In this case even if your dominant hand gets tangled by a big fish, you can grab a knife.

Ulusub is coming out with our new Wetsuit Range. Part of this includes a Weight Belt Cover. Weights.. are as dangerous as anything mentioned. Not only are they perfectly designed to catch a line.. but they tend to do so on your back.

Spearooooo, I'm not sure about you, but my shooting line is 20+ft long and made from Mono and when I'm manhandling a fish.. that's usually what I'm interacting with. Having a Float Line does not mean you don't still have a thin line to deal with. So keep in mind, using a Float should not keep you from engaging the same mindset as a diver using a Reel.. Line Maintenance. Line Maintenance. Line Maintenance. The danger in the story above happened to be a line caught on a weight belt. An equally common danger in that situation would be a diver going to retrieve the fish and then the fish making some last ditch effort and wrapping up a hand or arm under a ledge.. and that would be with shooting line. The way you are speaking here imparts that using a float line means you are in the clear.. entanglements happen. With Floatlines, Reels, Fishing Lines, etc.. And here's a news flash.. when you are using a float line.. you are dealing with lines a lllllllll day long. every single drop. I don't pull the trigger very often, sometimes not at all, so in a day where I shoot one fish, I'm dealing with lines.. once. I watched a buddy diving in the carribean the other day, same kind of stuff as described above. He was using a float line. Everytime he'd go look in a cave that float line was right there in the coral, and by his weights.

JFJF is giving some very good advice here. In the situation described, which I have been in many times, where a fish is shot, and runs a mess on the bottom with lines tangled in coral, etc.. The first thing I'm thinking is about lines. Half the time I will already have my knife out as I descend. I go straight for the fish. I subdue the fish, and in that situation I would probably just cut through the belly and bring him up and leave all the mess on the bottom to deal with after.

Castonova to the rescue, makes an important point. In a situation where a fish has been shot and taken a lot of line off of a reel, there is a going to be a lot of line floating around. People in the boat if there is one, should be made aware. "Hey. I got a lot of line out." and while the fish has it's own mind, you can generally swim a fish which is being retrieved and keep away from the line which has come off the reel and is FLOATING on the surface. Sinking lines.. terrible idea. However, as you are fighting the fish with a reel. You need to Always be thinking about Line Maintenance. Line Maintenance. Line Maintenance. And you need to always know where your knife is and how you are going to get it with either hand.

I do not recommend Reel Fishing for beginner divers.

For some kinds of fishing, reels are necessary. There are some fish which you will never even see with a Floatline. Reel Fishing also is much more interactive as you are always connected to the fish. Different strokes..
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