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Old 05-13-2011, 10:21 PM   #31
thudSPUD
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

Interesting scenario. I'm from Wisconsin, and even I've heard of Fish Lake. Anybody remotely interested in freshwater spearing probably has. It's no great secret.

I'll be in Salt Lake City in August for my medical rotations. I hope to take part in the tournament, should it occur. I hope it does.
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Old 05-16-2011, 06:17 AM   #32
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

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Originally Posted by Rocky Mountain Spearo View Post
Mike, don't you get it? He doesn't want to hear any facts, stop ruining his pitty party with facts, damn man.
How many locals did you spear.
No coincidence that the oppositional debates in this conversation are coming from colorado. If there is a pitty party at play here it is in colorado, other wise it would be worth while for spearos to go there. Is there no better evidence to the fish lake/willow beach debate than the colorado regs. Same party maybe? Same party standing at the foot of the bridge torch in hand.
It seems funny that a new guy shows up on the board who has some experience but only two posts. On his second post he announces a contest at fish lake. He charms us with his face, but declines to tell us from where he is from. Is there no better evidence to the fishlake/willow beach debate than the party needs a new face.
In nearly ten years of vegas I have not bet a single dime, but I would bet a dollar on this one.
Even I am not 100% right, I still have seventy five cents.
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Old 05-16-2011, 07:32 AM   #33
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

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Originally Posted by Mojave Green View Post
How many locals did you spear.
No coincidence that the oppositional debates in this conversation are coming from colorado. If there is a pitty party at play here it is in colorado, other wise it would be worth while for spearos to go there. Is there no better evidence to the fish lake/willow beach debate than the colorado regs. Same party maybe? Same party standing at the foot of the bridge torch in hand.
It seems funny that a new guy shows up on the board who has some experience but only two posts. On his second post he announces a contest at fish lake. He charms us with his face, but declines to tell us from where he is from. Is there no better evidence to the fishlake/willow beach debate than the party needs a new face.
In nearly ten years of vegas I have not bet a single dime, but I would bet a dollar on this one.
Even I am not 100% right, I still have seventy five cents.
MG,

I am not sure what all this poetic rambling is supposed to mean but....
The facts are that : no one has mentioned Colorado or Willow Beach but you, all of the spearo's that are refuting your nonsense were actually there at the FL tournament in Oct 2008 and they are using facts. You keep talking about outsiders yet you live in Vegas, wth?
I don’t care honestly if you don’t want there to be a tournament held at FL or anywhere for that matter, I don’t think the person hosting this tournament cares either. I don’t have a dog in this fight but you are making yourself look like an idiot trying to fight a battle that doesn’t even exist except for in your mind.

No one cares if the guys first post is announcing a tournament or his 100,000th post, well, apparently you do.

If you don’t want to support tournaments at FL then that is easy, don’t go. If you want to protest the tournament along with the tree-hugging h&l fishermen then join their ranks, but don’t sit here and preach about conservation etc when you have no idea of what went on at the 2008 FL tournament.
Mike provided you with the facts/fish take count from the 2008 FL spearfishing tournament, the fact that you chose to ignore the facts is mind boggling.

Unfortunately for you, you don't get to pick and chose how many spearo's go to any given body of water at any given time. Maybe you thought FL was your "hidden gem", like a few of the proevious post have pointed out, it's not.

Please do everyone a favor and get off of your high horse.

Oh, and you answer your question, I personally didn't spear any locals, I didn't see any worth spearing, they were all pretty ugly.
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:02 PM   #34
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

I am very interested in the regulations and making changes that make good public policy for everyone. Here is a link to some of the discussion that occured in 2008 after the tournament. http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin...gi?post=447409.

This is not meant to stoke any fires but provide context to the historical concerns.
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:38 PM   #35
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

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Originally Posted by Fimp Sac View Post
I am very interested in the regulations and making changes that make good public policy for everyone. Here is a link to some of the discussion that occured in 2008 after the tournament. http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin...gi?post=447409.

This is not meant to stoke any fires but provide context to the historical concerns.
What exactly does that do to help? There are about 10 more of those threads where hook and line/trout fanatics went ape shit over a pic of 14 dead fish, time to get over it all. Nothing was illegal except James was missing one permint and that wasnt even cited until about 6 months after the tournament because that is ALL they could find that was wrong.

Is there an issue besides mr. MG who doesnt want spearos to have a tournament at a certain lake that he deems his/a "hidden gem"?

Are you against having a tournament during legal spearfishing times at every lake or just Fish Lake?

We as spearos have enough people against us as it is, we dont need other spearos standing up on their "high horse" telling us that we shouldnt be spearing a fish, or spearing a certain lake with more than "2 spearos" or we shouldnt be having a tournament at XXXXXX Lake.

If you dont like that someone is having a tournament, you dont have to go, its simple.
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:24 AM   #36
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

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Originally Posted by Rocky Mountain Spearo View Post
What exactly does that do to help? There are about 10 more of those threads where hook and line/trout fanatics went ape shit over a pic of 14 dead fish, time to get over it all. Nothing was illegal except James was missing one permint and that wasnt even cited until about 6 months after the tournament because that is ALL they could find that was wrong.

Is there an issue besides mr. MG who doesnt want spearos to have a tournament at a certain lake that he deems his/a "hidden gem"?

Are you against having a tournament during legal spearfishing times at every lake or just Fish Lake?

We as spearos have enough people against us as it is, we dont need other spearos standing up on their "high horse" telling us that we shouldn't be spearing a fish, or spearing a certain lake with more than "2 spearos" or we shouldnt be having a tournament at XXXXXX Lake.

If you dont like that someone is having a tournament, you dont have to go, its simple.
First off it is disappointing to learn that so many more people know about Fish Lake. But if all these people do know about it then it certainly warrants a preservists approach to this particular situation. It is of greater risk of being trampled underfoot.

Second, if you and who you represent are so god sent to the spearfishing world, with so much to offer then why not take your esoteric preachings back to colorado. If you and your pals have something to prove do it there by getting some regs that make it worth the trip from across state lines. Just think how that would help us all to open up Colorado. Surely there is a Fish Lake in Colorado somewhere.
There is no coincidence that those regs in Col. suck for the same reason that there is negative perception of spearfishing at Willow Beach and Fish Lake.

About this high horse accusations, what you need to understand here is that this B.S. started on my home waters at willow, therefore I most certainly have something to say about this direct impact. That said, by no uncertain terms, it is you that needs to go sit in the corner and keep your mouth shut.

Just to reiterate my stance: No spearfishing contests on fish lake. It is irresponsible to risk privilege for the sake of vanity. It is arrogant to descend on one of this countries prized jewels for the sake of vanity. Absolutely the only gain is self promotion.
Ultimately the decision resides with the locals. It would be interesting to see the results of a silent vote by the spearos of Utah. If they have collective approval then I guess I have nothing more to say about it, at least until it's time to say "told you so." Until then, take your gypsy side show to Chuckee-Cheeze and elect your prom queen there.
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:36 AM   #37
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojave Green View Post
First off it is disappointing to learn that so many more people know about Fish Lake. But if all these people do know about it then it certainly warrants a preservists approach to this particular situation. It is of greater risk of being trampled underfoot.

Second, if you and who you represent are so god sent to the spearfishing world, with so much to offer then why not take your esoteric preachings back to colorado. If you and your pals have something to prove do it there by getting some regs that make it worth the trip from across state lines. Just think how that would help us all to open up Colorado. Surely there is a Fish Lake in Colorado somewhere.
There is no coincidence that those regs in Col. suck for the same reason that there is negative perception of spearfishing at Willow Beach and Fish Lake.

About this high horse accusations, what you need to understand here is that this B.S. started on my home waters at willow, therefore I most certainly have something to say about this direct impact. That said, by no uncertain terms, it is you that needs to go sit in the corner and keep your mouth shut.

Just to reiterate my stance: No spearfishing contests on fish lake. It is irresponsible to risk privilege for the sake of vanity. It is arrogant to descend on one of this countries prized jewels for the sake of vanity. Absolutely the only gain is self promotion.
Ultimately the decision resides with the locals. It would be interesting to see the results of a silent vote by the spearos of Utah. If they have collective approval then I guess I have nothing more to say about it, at least until it's time to say "told you so." Until then, take your gypsy side show to Chuckee-Cheeze and elect your prom queen there.
Just what I expected......


So Josh,
Care to post tournament details for the Fish Lake tournament that you are hosting?
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:32 PM   #38
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Mountain Spearo View Post
There are about 10 more of those threads where hook and line/trout fanatics went ape shit over a pic of 14 dead fish, time to get over it all.

Nothing was illegal except James was missing one permint and that wasnt even cited until about 6 months after the tournament because that is ALL they could find that was wrong.
I have NO dog in this fight & don't know much about the situation other than what's in the threads that I've read... are there other facts?

The fact that the fish cops cited him 6 months after the tourney highlights the fact that they listened to the public pressure to do something about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fimp Sac View Post
I am very interested in the regulations and making changes that make good public policy for everyone. Here is a link to some of the discussion that occured in 2008 after the tournament. http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin...gi?post=447409.

This is not meant to stoke any fires but provide context to the historical concerns.
From a broader spearo perspective, it looks like the 2008 tourney did a lot of damage to the public perception of spearfishing there. Live & learn...

Unless it was just for invasives, it seems that hosting another spearfishing tourney at Fish Lake would re-ignite the controversy, further unite the H&L's against us & could result in a further loss of spearin' privilieges there... Based on the history, is it worth it?

We can only spear rough fish & I only wish we were as lucky as y'all there... good luck.

Last edited by steepNdeep; 05-24-2011 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:58 PM   #39
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

Mojave, you said "First off it is disappointing to learn that so many more people know about Fish Lake. But if all these people do know about it then it certainly warrants a preservists approach to this particular situation."

Please don't take this as a personal attack, it is a discussion on the issue, but there is a very big difference between preservation and conservation.

I know that some people compete in spearfishing tournaments merely to stoke their egos, but my primary reason is that it is a good way to ensure that several people with similar interests are in one place at one time.

I was at the tournament in question. I did not win that tournament, but I learned a lot about diving at altitude and in really cold water there. My primary motivation was to set a new personal best on trout, not for bragging rights, but to test myself and work to better myself.

I bought an out of state fishing license, drove over 18 hours round trip, and I payed to stay in a cabin near the lake. I had not been there prior, nor have I been back since. I think that the tourist dollars alone that were brought to the area were worth a lot more than the two non-breeding sterile splake that I harvested, that were put into the lake by the state wildlife agency as a recreational fisherman's target.

Without conservation, these splake wouldn't be there in the first place, so I will disagree with you that we need a preservationist's attitude, and recommend an educated approach to conservation instead.

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Old 05-24-2011, 01:09 AM   #40
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

Seeing how my name is being tossed around this. I figure you should all hear it from me instead of second hand. I did recieve a ticket 6 months after the fact. The ticket was not for having a tournament. But rather for not getting a "Special use permit" When I spoke with the National Forrest officer who gave me the ticket. It was very clear that it was because of public pressure from the hook and line guys who were upset that some splake ,a non breading sterile fish was targeted and taken. Do I regreat having a tournament there? Do I regreat the fall out of what happend afterwards? Would I have another tourament there? Well I will keep my opinion and those answers to myself. The facts still remain that Spearfishing is not a publicly accepted form of take regaurdless if its done by yourself or in a tournament setting. Nothing good comes from this argument. Period. No one is going to change their mind and trying to convince others is a waste of time. Facts are. I had a tournament there and I got a ticket. I still believe that that lake is not a secret and that our tournament brought both good and bad things to light.
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:22 PM   #41
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

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Originally Posted by Mojave Green View Post
Ultimately the decision resides with the locals. It would be interesting to see the results of a silent vote by the spearos of Utah. If they have collective approval then I guess I have nothing more to say about it.
As a local Utah resident who was at the tourny, I think it was fine. As a person who has visited the lake numerous times (mostly h&l fishing) I've seen fisherman bring in their catch for beers and bragging at the little store/restaraunt. Your 'precious gem' is being destroyed at a much faster rate by the H&L fisherman than by the spearfishing community.

It's commical to me that fish are pulled out by the dozens DAILY by H&L and nobody bitches about it....
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:28 PM   #42
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Re: 2011 Utah Tournaments?

No problem with them having a tourney, its going to be tough to get big trout in august but i may try to make it down.
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