Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > United States Geographical Locations > California Spearfishing

California Spearfishing Talk here about spearfishing on California's Pacific Coast, and post those reports and photos!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-09-2019, 09:10 AM   #61
Postmortem
Eric
 
Postmortem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CA
Age: 30
Posts: 1,133
Re: Fire on the Conception

Quote:
Originally Posted by PigStikr View Post
So the people who really need to go to jail are the bureaucrats whose job it was and is to update regulations to match advances in technology. It only took one walk thru the sister ship for the NTSB investigator to decry the difficulty of finding the exit hatch in the dark and complain about its size. Where were they a year ago? Ten? For decades the NTSB sat on their butts instead of going out in the real world to find and implement real world solutions. You won't find a bucket load of LiIon batteries charging on an aircraft - you would think the morons would have extended the ban to boats. So who is investigating the NTSB????
I flew to and from HI this past July on American and every other seat had USB plug-ins for charging your phone.
Postmortem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2019, 01:49 PM   #62
Bob Ballew
Registered User
 
Bob Ballew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 6,190
Re: Fire on the Conception

...Now, do all of you boat owners see the importance of having protection beyond a waiver if things should hit the fan. The feds are issuing supeonas and searching the offices of Aquatics for all notes, e-mails and evidence of what training and what issues were discussed. Even the hiring process for crew will come under scrutiny... The owner had no choice, but, to file for protection under the Limitation of Liability Act or he would go bankrupt. The black cloud of attorneys for both sides are gathering for the coming storm...This situation could easily result in over 100 million dollars of fees and awards by the time it is over. One thing that might be in the crew's favor is, if tried, they can ask for a judge to make the final decision rather than put their fate in the hands of a fickle jury that can be swayed by emotion, rather than law and logic.
...The scary thing for the owner, captain and crew is that under the Seaman's Manslaughter rules, gross negligence need not be shown. Simple negligence is enough to send anyone of them to prison for ten years.....That means that one innocent statement by the captain or a crewmember could mean imprisonment if it can be used to infer negligence...So, now we are left to consider the fairness of the justice system, that once it gets started, is a steamroller bent on holding someone, anyone....accountable.....Federal prosecutors will love to get this case..Why, a win could guarantee one of them a federal judgeship and isn't that the goal of every good prosecutor? What? I am cynical you say....Anyway, keep the faith, Aquatics crew...just remember that tomorrow, it will be someone else's turn in the barrel.....
...So, if the hanging tree of uninformed public opinion doesn't do them all in, the government just might...is it fair?...that, ….. you have to decide...

Last edited by Bob Ballew; 09-09-2019 at 02:42 PM.
Bob Ballew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2019, 03:46 PM   #63
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,978
Re: Fire on the Conception

A real question is are the toxic and explosive fumes from a venting and overheating lithium ion cell invisible to an ionizing radiation based smoke alarm and fire detector? No particulates in the air and the alarm stays silent. Then when a finally failing cell ignites, everything lights up and the smoke alarm is toast. That is a scenario to worry about!
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 04:52 AM   #64
PigStikr
Stupendous User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 486
Re: Fire on the Conception

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmortem View Post
I flew to and from HI this past July on American and every other seat had USB plug-ins for charging your phone.
I think the issue is batteries dispersed in a jet vs. batteries lined up in the galley. If one pops the others can join in.

Regardless, I think responsible NTSB execs could and should have addressed this and the other issues of exits, alarms, etc. and should be held accountable. Just because they are govt. workers they shouldn't get a pass. In fact, they should be held to a much higher standard because they are being paid solely to promote safety. A dive boat crew has a lot more to deal with - feeding the passengers, getting there and back, filling tanks, dropping and retrieving divers, weather and current, maintenance and repair, hand-holding and etc.
__________________
PigStikr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 06:30 AM   #65
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,603
Re: Fire on the Conception

More gov't is never the answer, seemingly you Cali's would've learned that by now.

A simple solution for this problem is a fire containment storage/charging station. I'm imagining a cheap light weight box with air tight lid and all the charging source interfaces contained inside the box.
I don't know if lithium ignition creates it's own oxygen or not but if it doesn't then a simple cheap CO2 cartridge plug in with purge valve with blow off port to the outside would seem to be a simple solution.
Combine this with a simple easy safe detachable external power connection and a some sort of passive sensor that indicates the condition inside the box before one opens it would be in order. I'm thinking a tall rectangular box with netting pockets on the inside walls that would hold/contain cell phones/tablets.
__________________
“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 03:52 PM   #66
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,978
Re: Fire on the Conception

One thing to consider is all these passenger gadgets being recharged are being recharged by the vessel's own power supply and I assume that the diesels ain't running at night. What sort of a battery storage did the Conception have as there are thousand dollar plus marine batteries using this technology?

A big worry is someone (a passenger) may have bought a well-known brand of battery which unknown to them was counterfeit. Under its authentic looking outer skin may have been lurking some sub-standard piece of junk, unknown to all but the POS who made it. This battery and multiples thereof may have been amongst the legitimate gear being recharged and started to vent and build up a potential disaster unknown to anyone on the boat. Once the whole lot went up the boat's own electrical power system may have been compromised, although I am sure the vessel had legitimate batteries as the shonks have not intruded there yet (I hope).
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 05:41 PM   #67
malibujohn
Registered User
 
malibujohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,130
Re: Fire on the Conception

You guys and your fcking battery speculation!! The only gimme here is if someone was on watch they would have seen, heard or smelled something!! There is no way a fire rages out of control in seconds!! Pete, have you even been on a dive boat? They have a diesel generator that runs at night.

Last edited by malibujohn; 09-10-2019 at 05:44 PM. Reason: Because
malibujohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 06:07 PM   #68
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,978
Re: Fire on the Conception

Quote:
Originally Posted by malibujohn View Post
You guys and your fcking battery speculation!! The only gimme here is if someone was on watch they would have seen, heard or smelled something!! There is no way a fire rages out of control in seconds!! Pete, have you even been on a dive boat? They have a diesel generator that runs at night.
Not that size.
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 06:13 PM   #69
mikelb
Registered User
 
mikelb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: HB, CA
Posts: 1,078
Re: Fire on the Conception

150 miles round trip last week Wednesday and 6 miles out from dock in dark......smelled something smoking and quickly lost most power. I moved the fish bag fast and pulled the engine hatch open in seconds. No fire, but oil. Thankfully, no fire as in diesel motor. MJ....

P.S. Very costly but we're okay.
__________________
Actually, yes, that yt is almost 30#'s. Hell, it's almost as big as me!
mikelb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:05 PM   #70
Behslayer
Registered User
 
Behslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Big Island
Posts: 4,959
Re: Fire on the Conception

Malibu John is right about one thing here. This is all speculation. Some sicko could have spread Gasoline throughout the boat and lit it up.. I don't think that is what happened. But it is a possibility that the investigators will rule out.

There fire started somehow (Fact). It seemed to move quickly (speculation)

But batteries come up.. For sure there were heaps of larger Lithium batteries used for Underwater Video Cameras, lights, even Sea scooters being charged. I would imagine that a big Sea Scooter battery would be charged in the galley. Maybe some of the others were charged in the bunks.

When even a small Lithium battery explodes, it's like a Fire spitting tempest. Powder is sprayed and ignites. It is a very long and Hot reaction which also spews out a huge amount of acrid smoke.

The fact is that these batteries can explode, and if it happened on a boat it could be a disaster. They may or may not have caused the Concpetion fire, but they need to be investigated more and considered for use on boats in the same
way they have been evaluated for use on Planes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT1B27DAATs
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-09-10 at 4.49.33 PM.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	84.8 KB
ID:	244018  
Behslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:26 PM   #71
NaClAddict
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 350
Re: Fire on the Conception

I personally know of several people that have had Underwater Kinetics batteries fireball when charging.
NaClAddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 01:26 PM   #72
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 64
Posts: 5,972
Re: Fire on the Conception

You have to watch this test of lithium batteries by these two crazy guys. This explains how the fire could have easily occurred extremely rapidly. The end of the video is really eye opening.

__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:15 PM   #73
Bob Ballew
Registered User
 
Bob Ballew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 6,190
Re: Fire on the Conception

...Another issue is smoke detector reliability...My research indicates there are no marine designed detectors built nor, required by Code...The closest is a detector designed for rv use, an upgrade from the economical Kidde detectors sold at Home Depot..All have a test button to tell you if the battery will activate the alarm, but, nothing to test if the sensor is working or is corroded by salt moisture exposure...
...Tesitng it with smoke could prove counter productive if the carbon coats the sensor. So, the best solution seems to be frequent replacement. Even then, the deadly gases given off by batteries may not trigger the sensor if no smoke is present...Something to think about... Hopefully, the CG will research further, improve standards and perhaps, prevent a reoccurance down the line...Still, even with new technology; the ocean will continue to claim the unwary...Sometimes, survival is just luck of the draw..

Last edited by Bob Ballew; 09-11-2019 at 03:29 PM.
Bob Ballew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:56 PM   #74
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,978
Re: Fire on the Conception

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star View Post
You have to watch this test of lithium batteries by these two crazy guys. This explains how the fire could have easily occurred extremely rapidly. The end of the video is really eye opening.

http://youtu.be/CUgbmCSmSNY
Thanks for posting this, I knew things could be bad, but not that bad. The problem is counterfeit gear that would pass muster at a glance, it adulterates the "population" of batteries in circulation. Like going on a dive boat and saying "could you tell me where I can stow this box of time fuses and hand grenades which have the pins missing".
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 12:01 AM   #75
CaliDiverDan
Registered User
 
CaliDiverDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Oakland CA
Posts: 100
Re: Fire on the Conception

Quote:
Originally Posted by malibujohn View Post
I am seething inside right now! Just read that the owner filed papers with the court to limit any legal payouts to the families to zilch!
I'm gonna say what ive felt from the very moment I heard about this. Someone in that crew fcked up big time and should be prosecuted! How was there nobody on watch on that boat that would have seen smoke, or smelled something burning. Its the fcking law that there is to be a roving watchman on board! I just don't fcking get it!! And the fact that not one of those guys had ANY sort of burns shows they just didn't try, not one bit. They let 34 people die without trying to save them!! Ya, fck those guys and the heartless bastard who owns the boat-rot in hell!!
Unless you were on the boat you have NO right to judge what happened at this point.

The reason Truth Aquatics would file papers to limit payouts is because some families of victims on the boat are getting propositioned by sleaze ball lawyers like this guy:

https://www.smbb.com/attorney/robert...sDyNmFzysRyqNE

Sadly, they will try to sue the company for all they have. The company would fold, and all dive charters in the US will shit their pants, raise their rates or go out of business.

Is that what you want?
CaliDiverDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:39 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com