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Old 04-22-2016, 03:32 PM   #16
desrat
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Re: Regulator questions.

A bit late, but..

Sherwoods 1st's are a sealed design, so if there is corrosion, it should be on more than just the piston.
The shop might be referring to the filter on the piston itself. This is something that cannot be cleaned. The reg will still work, but will be a stiff breather.
Sherwoods are stupid simple to work on. At this point, you could open the first stage up and see how bad it is in there. It might be a just a toasted piston, which can be had. Manuals are available online. Service kits are super cheap too.
If the second stage is plastic, examine it carefully for hairline cracks. Not sure which era Sherwood you have, but there early stuff was similar to bakelite, then they switched to what I believe ABS, which is a lot more durable. If is a newer one, you could always get a new [or new to you] 1st and use the second stage you already have.
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Old 04-22-2016, 06:01 PM   #17
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Re: Regulator questions.

Mucho advice here based on a misunderstanding of how the old Sherwood Brut, Magnum, Oasis regulator design work or don't work.
In the first stage, the part that mounts to the tank valve, there is on the outside of the first generation of these regulators, a rubber check valve/flow restrictor seen as a black button looking thing that is designed to allow air pressure to burp or mist out of the regulator spring chamber. Inside the reg there is a filter/ flow restrictor in the top of the piston, that allows air the pass through into the spring chamber. Gen 2 and later worked the same way with different bits.
The deeper dive you go the denser the air is in the spring chamber, and the regulator increases the intermediate pressure as you descend. If it doesn't visibly mist air out of the first stage the 1st stage isn't doing what it was designed to do and the spring chamber will back flood and not increase air pressure as you descend in the water column. Maybe safe for a pool toy but that's all.
Both designs are now obsolete, not supported by Sherwood and I don't think service kits are available anymore.
Don't let anyone but a trained Sherwood tech work on that because it is a design unique to Sherwood.
If your hoses are that old, pitch them as a safety concern.
All the new gear is much better than what you have even when brand new.
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Old 04-22-2016, 06:08 PM   #18
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Re: Regulator questions.

When the spring chamber floods it stops being a regulator and becomes a valve with a flow restrictor.
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Old 04-23-2016, 08:37 AM   #19
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Re: Regulator questions.

Not sure if above is directed at my post, but I stand by it. I didn’t elaborate about Sherwood's patented Dry Air Bleed system, but it does make the 1st stage effectively sealed if charged.
This is covered in the manuals I mentioned.
Piston first stages are extremely simple compared to balanced diaphragm versions. Sherwoods are no exception. This is a good place to start if someone's interested in working on their own gear. No big investment in tools required...regular hand tools, a tank, and an intermediate pressure gauge [really you should have this already - ideal way to spot check your reg pre-dive for creep. Creep =bad times]
I also understand that some aren't interested in the diy aspect and prefer to have a 'tech' work on their stuff. But as the OP said, he experienced problems after he had something serviced. Problems like that prompt a lot of people to work on their own gear.
Factory service kits are-a-plenty, as I mentioned, and dirt cheap and can found on ebait, NESS, etc. In fact, the good thing about Sherwood service kits is that they contain the necessary parts for both 1st and 2nd stages. I don't know of any other mfg that does this.
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Old 04-23-2016, 09:45 AM   #20
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Re: Regulator questions.

The Gen 1 Sherwood dry bleed system vents through the piston. When it no longer vents air the 1st stage floods and the piston needs to replaced. There is no cleaning it. The HP seat in the piston was crimped in place and not replaceable These pistons have not been available from Sherwood for many years.
The 2nd gen regulators had a replaceable HP seat in the piston. Also obsolete.
The 3nd generation Sherwood dry bleed used a replaceable sintered filter that looks like a set screw and allen wrenches into the 1st stage body to restrict air flow and allow the piston to be cleaned and re-used after changing this filter, after failure and flooding.
Piston regs are very simple, but the parts for Sherwood's are brand specific and generation specific and not interchangeable with anything from any other brand. So don't let anyone but a Sherwood repair facility/tech put parts in a Sherwood regulator.
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Old 04-23-2016, 10:08 AM   #21
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Re: Regulator questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desrat View Post
Not sure if above is directed at my post, but I stand by it. I didnít elaborate about Sherwood's patented Dry Air Bleed system, but it does make the 1st stage effectively sealed if charged.
This is covered in the manuals I mentioned.
Piston first stages are extremely simple compared to balanced diaphragm versions. Sherwoods are no exception. This is a good place to start if someone's interested in working on their own gear. No big investment in tools required...regular hand tools, a tank, and an intermediate pressure gauge [really you should have this already - ideal way to spot check your reg pre-dive for creep. Creep =bad times]
I also understand that some aren't interested in the diy aspect and prefer to have a 'tech' work on their stuff. But as the OP said, he experienced problems after he had something serviced. Problems like that prompt a lot of people to work on their own gear.
Factory service kits are-a-plenty, as I mentioned, and dirt cheap and can found on ebait, NESS, etc. In fact, the good thing about Sherwood service kits is that they contain the necessary parts for both 1st and 2nd stages. I don't know of any other mfg that does this.
I would like to share a technique for determining without tools or a gauge if a hissing regulator has a first stage problem, and should not be dove, or just needs a 2nd stage adjustment and is safe to use if you can monitor tank pressure.
You may well already know all this, but it might help somebody else.
When you purge a hissing 2nd stage and the free flow goes away but eventually re starts, your problem is in the 1st stage. It's not locking up. It continues to increase supply pressure until it overcomes the spring that pushes the poppet against the seat and allows the leak to resume.
If the free flow does not go away at all after purging the regulator, it is an adjustment problem with the in the 2nd stage
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Old 04-23-2016, 10:12 AM   #22
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Re: Regulator questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desrat View Post
Not sure if above is directed at my post, but I stand by it. I didnít elaborate about Sherwood's patented Dry Air Bleed system, but it does make the 1st stage effectively sealed if charged.
This is covered in the manuals I mentioned.
Piston first stages are extremely simple compared to balanced diaphragm versions. Sherwoods are no exception. This is a good place to start if someone's interested in working on their own gear. No big investment in tools required...regular hand tools, a tank, and an intermediate pressure gauge [really you should have this already - ideal way to spot check your reg pre-dive for creep. Creep =bad times]
I also understand that some aren't interested in the diy aspect and prefer to have a 'tech' work on their stuff. But as the OP said, he experienced problems after he had something serviced. Problems like that prompt a lot of people to work on their own gear.
Factory service kits are-a-plenty, as I mentioned, and dirt cheap and can found on ebait, NESS, etc. In fact, the good thing about Sherwood service kits is that they contain the necessary parts for both 1st and 2nd stages. I don't know of any other mfg that does this.
Service parts for the gen 1 and gen 2 Sherwoods are not available, and you cannot put parts from the newer into the older regulators. They are not compatable. The 17 year old regulator is definitely obsolete.
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Old 04-27-2016, 03:14 PM   #23
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Re: Regulator questions.

Well guys, I was at a different shop, the one that now services all of my department's gear. The owner is a certified Sherwood dude. I described the issue with my regulator as it was related to me. He showed me a similar 1st stage he had on his bench, waiting for new parts. He said replacement parts for the old Sherwoods are readily available and inexpensive. Said he could repair and service my rig at a very reasonable price.

I asked him if he would recommend repairing my old stuff or buying new, low end gear. He said it was up to me, but added that my stuff, while old, is not low end, but closer to the middle of the Sherwood line, (in it's time), and would be very good gear again if serviced.

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Old 04-27-2016, 03:58 PM   #24
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Re: Regulator questions.

Ron,
I think you're making a good choice. A 10 or 15 year old good reg isn't that different than new one.
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Old 04-27-2016, 04:04 PM   #25
Ron S
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Re: Regulator questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash View Post
Ron,
I think you're making a good choice. A 10 or 15 year old good reg isn't that different than new one.
I'm realizing that. The good thing is, I can just use the Apex 50 from work any time I want and I don't even have to pay for the service. Guess I can just do that till I retire!

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Old 08-17-2019, 04:45 AM   #26
rnln
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Re: Regulator questions.

Ron S,
I am looking into some used gears and the more I read, the more I think getting used gear can be rolling the dice. Your old regulator cost $200 to repair. What if your newly bought second hand regulator is also in exact same condition as your old regulator?
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Old 08-17-2019, 05:56 AM   #27
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Re: Regulator questions.

Use regulators rebuilt properly are as good as new ones. How do I know that? I am using conshelf USDivers regulators I got back in 1966 that I rebuild every 3 to 4 years. Rinse them off and keep them inside your home when not using them. Not thrown in a dive bad left in you hot garage. Dive pros has a knowagable rebuilder of any regulators.

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