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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 10-13-2016, 01:22 PM   #16
Penguin
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

Hi Pete, do you know if the Dreamair is close to completion? Would you use it over a normal pneumatic? I like their thinking outside the box and a new take on a speargun, but I'm not convinced yet that it is effective, as in as powerful or more than an ordinary pneumatic. I thought they would have posted video along side those stills with the target.
I look forward to being proved wrong
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Old 10-13-2016, 04:25 PM   #17
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

It seems that all the parts are available, the plastic components look like they are injection moulded rather than 3-D printed, hence it may be only the extruded barrels that are holding it back. However that is only speculation on my part as I don’t know. People have been querying a release date for months and the response has been “soon”. The only source of information on a first hand basis is the “Infinitengines” Facebook page, i.e. https://www.facebook.com/infinitengines/?fref=ts
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:39 PM   #18
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

does it store your energy?
It seems overly complicated and maybe represents an unfair advantage?
I mean lost air pneaumatics are the most powerful thing I have seen but they arent used because they are seen as making it too easy?
would this fall into the same category?
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:59 PM   #19
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

Would this gun have a much reduced recoil? It seems like the "gearing" of the cones would start to push the shaft slowly and then continue to increase power as the larger diameter sections begin pulling on the shaft. Seems like it would be the opposite of other guns and would deliver power to the shaft on a more gradual basis? Maybe I don't understand it?
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:56 PM   #20
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

Quote:
Originally Posted by triponempa View Post
does it store your energy?
It seems overly complicated and maybe represents an unfair advantage?
I mean lost air pneaumatics are the most powerful thing I have seen but they arent used because they are seen as making it too easy?
would this fall into the same category?
The answers are Yes, No and No, in that order.
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:08 PM   #21
popgun pete
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

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Originally Posted by jfjf View Post
Would this gun have a much reduced recoil? It seems like the "gearing" of the cones would start to push the shaft slowly and then continue to increase power as the larger diameter sections begin pulling on the shaft. Seems like it would be the opposite of other guns and would deliver power to the shaft on a more gradual basis? Maybe I don't understand it?
Well with all its plastic component parts, barrel tube, bulkheads, axles and various winding drums I don't expect the "Dreamair" gun to be any sort of "lightweight" weapon, so the recoil should not be arduous for shooting the usual spear diameters. However the system may work better as shaft weight increases, in which case the recoil would tend to be greater, but that eventuality is an unknown. You are right about the force level being turned around during the wishbone draw, however that is designed to improve your chance of hooking the shaft tabs or wishbone slots before turning yourself "inside out".
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Old 10-15-2016, 04:39 AM   #22
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

Fascinating concept, super interested to see this implemented..
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Old 10-15-2016, 06:06 AM   #23
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

Quote:
Originally Posted by triponempa View Post
does it store your energy?
It seems overly complicated and maybe represents an unfair advantage?
I mean lost air pneaumatics are the most powerful thing I have seen but they arent used because they are seen as making it too easy?
would this fall into the same category?
Please let's tidy up this misunderstanding.
Lost air guns, as you call them, in reality only refers to CO2 guns and those are an extremely rare breed. Basically only one guy produces a gun like this in the world today and last I heard, he was taking a long break. Before that, you had Pelletier guns but they prolly went belly up in the 70s(?). You are right in that CO2 guns take no real loading effort at all (other than a trip to a compressor/dive shop to fill up the tank).
I think all spearing competitions ban the use of these guns and, personally, I don't care if there are a small handful of spearos using them (might still be a few worldwide?).
But I have once before latched out at this "cheating argument" as they are a great, great option for people who have physical disabilities, have been injured or lost muscle power due to age or decease but who have not lost their love for hunting in the oceans.

Almost every other pneumatic out there does not loose air after a shot and have been pre-pumped up manually. They are pretty much as hard to load as a band gun and as such there is no "cheating" at all involved.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 10-15-2016 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 10-15-2016, 06:09 AM   #24
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

We've discussed this on another forum and my personal take there was that it is still a tad unlikely that you can store much more energy in this gun during loading than in a traditional air gun. And as such, with all the extra friction inherent in this design, I am still unsure about it really being able to offer more performance.

To play the Band Gun Devil's Advocate, despite being an Air Disciple, this design does not offer a way to partition the total loading effort and thus up the total stored energy to more than what a single loading effort could achieve. A multi-band gun does...
As do my old air favorite, the Mares Mirage and hydro-pneumatic guns.

I think the design's claim to fame is what Pete describes as turning around the force level needed for loading it. The designer theorizes that this will, in total, make you able to store more energy at loading. My argument against that would be that when you load a traditional pneumatic on your foot, you can use the muscles in your leg, back and stomach, too on top of the ones in your arms and shoulders. If this use of more muscle groups when loading a pneumatic is more efficient than the muscle used for loading a bandgun, then I am not so sure his point is valid.

But his design definitely has us asking questions and I'd loved to be proved wrong as not only does it look super cool, I also really respect the major thinking outside the box.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 10-15-2016 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 10-16-2016, 03:12 PM   #25
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

A fish's first encounter with the "Dreamair" shows a "real world" result for those who were looking for other than my scribbling! Photo from the "Infinitengines" Facebook page.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 10-16-2016 at 07:44 PM. Reason: post another photo from the InfEng Facebook page
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Old 10-20-2016, 08:05 PM   #26
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

Energy storage diagram for twin axle version of "Dreamair". Note that second wishbone draw requires more effort than the first. On the flipside if only one wishbone is cocked then a lower power shot is available, or you can apply both wishbones and use all of the gun's energy store. Only unknown is how much energy comes out compared to the energy that was put in by the operator when cocking the gun. No speargun has 100% efficiency, highest efficiency is available from the pneumovacuum speargun, then followed by the pneumatic speargun and the hydropneumatic speargun in that order. Band guns come next with spring guns a distant last at a miserable 30% efficiency!
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Last edited by popgun pete; 10-20-2016 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 10-22-2016, 01:14 AM   #27
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

The engineering required to bring the concept to life has not cut any corners and incorporates all the features that would be expected in a weapon of this highly advanced and entirely unprecedented design. The only "roller" in the "Dreamair" speargun is the small roller on the nose of the piston in the twin axle version for the doubled-up inner cable to wrap around.
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Old 10-22-2016, 09:21 PM   #28
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

A video is being prepared, so when it appears a reference here will be made to it. As to the size of the current "Dreamair" gun, here is the info.

The size of the "Dreamair" speargun is 110 cm (130 cm overall length). The dimensions of the oval barrel tube are 55 mm x 38 mm. (Note that a "standard" pneumatic gun, e.g. Mares "Sten", has a 40 mm OD tank tube with a 38 mm ID.) The weight of the gun without the spear is 1800 g and the gun can shoot spears from 6.5 mm to 8 mm with 150 cm length; spear shafts larger than 8 mm can be used if a flotation element is added to the gun. The "Dreamair" speargun can be made in various barrel lengths.

Last edited by popgun pete; 10-22-2016 at 09:38 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 10-24-2016, 03:22 PM   #29
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

A manipulation of a graph on the "Infinitengines" web-site demonstrates the effect of the CVT system in changing the draw effort required of the operator. Start pressure is 11 atm, although I think that may be a mite too high for many, including me!
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Old 10-29-2016, 04:42 AM   #30
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Re: The Infinite Engines Dreamair moves from dream to reality

A damper unit has now been added to control the impact of the rapidly rearward travelling piston with the shot. A composite photo is attached showing its hydraulic valving components.
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