Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > United States Geographical Locations > California Spearfishing

California Spearfishing Talk here about spearfishing on California's Pacific Coast, and post those reports and photos!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-06-2019, 10:49 AM   #31
malibujohn
Registered User
 
malibujohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,130
Re: Fire on the Conception

p-fish, this goes way beyond boat ownership and responsibility! THESE ARE HUMAN LIVES we are talking about! Fathers, mothers, sons, daughters....
In any crisis situation its our moral obligation to do whatever it takes!
Trust me, I'm not talking out my ass, I've been there, 31 years ago!

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...894-story.html
malibujohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 12:03 PM   #32
Jolinedaniel
Shootin dodo's
 
Jolinedaniel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chino Hills
Age: 30
Posts: 2,536
Re: Fire on the Conception

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lat...ng%3f_amp=true

What a piece of trash. All of their other charters should be boycotted until they pay the families
Jolinedaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 12:41 PM   #33
Bob Ballew
Registered User
 
Bob Ballew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 6,190
Re: Fire on the Conception

...A few things to keep in mind: This is a boat issue, not a diving issue....Boat disasters have occurred for centuries and will continue for more centuries..Up to now, Peace (correction, the Aquatic company) has had an excellent safety record. The company owner is between a rock and a hard spot. Under old maritime law, the boat owner can legally file under the section you folks are angry with, and possibly limit, but, not avoid liability. It is probably his only course of action at present to avoid bankruptcy and being put out of business. The attorney sharks will gather to feed and stuff will hit the fan for years to come unless an out of court settlement is reached ( most likely outcome)..
...The issue is negligence...Was a watch posted, what training did the captain and crew have? why did not the alarms go off?, etc, etc. The captain will face the brunt of the inquiry..everything, from losing his license, to facing a criminal charge under the "seaman's manslaughter" scenario...a federal statue that is one very scary thing to deal with. But, if negligence regarding equipment plays a part of it, then, the Coast Guard also faces questions after clearing the boat during required inspections..
...The timing of the owner's filing creates the animosity shown above but, he has to act fast to protect himself and the employees. I would urge everyone to reserve judgement until we see how it plays out...just one old fart's opinion on real life...

Last edited by Bob Ballew; 09-06-2019 at 01:52 PM.
Bob Ballew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 12:52 PM   #34
malibujohn
Registered User
 
malibujohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,130
Unhappy Re: Fire on the Conception

Bob, First of all it's not the Peace, second, it's WAY more than a "boat" issue, and last of all, they ALL will face the ultimate judgement!!! Nobody even tried to save those poor souls!
malibujohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 02:03 PM   #35
Bob Ballew
Registered User
 
Bob Ballew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 6,190
Re: Fire on the Conception

...Again, it is too early in the inquiry to do more than speculate on what the crew did or did not do; more importantly, could have done... One issue I see is the age of the crew and how new they are to crewing on sportboats. The company placed numerous ads recently seeking crewmembers to work on the boats. At some point, skilled crew members tend to move on to better paying occupations.... A 20 year old crewmember cannot be expected to react or know how to do everything expected of an experienced old salt who has been thru it all...Moral: don't be so quick to sacrifice them on the "hanging tree" of outraged opinion...
...The maritime statute the boat owner filed under, is a pre-civil war law that was intended to limit the amount of liability faced by boat owners and companies. The owners of the Titanic filed the same paperwork shortly after Titanic sank. This is a highly charged emotional situation and no amount of money can ever repair the damage done. The only positive is that there are lessons to be learned and hopefully, all of us on Spearboard will heed the lessons.
...As I post, the dive barge "Salta Verde" is over the wreck site and will attempt to use a large crane to lift the wreckage on board to further the investigation, which may take a year to two years to complete...Additionally, Sheriff's dive teams are scouring the ocean bottom for every scrap of boat they can find..I have been extremely depressed about all this and it is difficult to remain rational. Yesterday, I saved a baby squirrel that fell out of it's nest and feel a little better today. Tomorrow, who knows what lies ahead..
...As far as answering to God, he may very well decide they need help with lifelong PTSS and open the heavenly doors wide....That would be a good ending...………………………………………………………………

Last edited by Bob Ballew; 09-06-2019 at 03:14 PM.
Bob Ballew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 02:09 PM   #36
StukNotAnchored
Registered User
 
StukNotAnchored's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ocean City, NJ & Islamorada, Fl
Posts: 142
Re: Fire on the Conception

The action you are talking about is filed by an insurance company. Under certain circumstances in admiralty law, the damages are capped at the value of the vessel. This vessel is worth nothing, hence the ATTEMPT.
However in the interests of passengers and when in STATE waters (I have read this boat was 20 yards from land, so well within the 3 mile limit of State waters), State law applies which is where wrongful death and personal injury claims are addressed.
What the action you are reading about is really just a near-baseless action by the insurance company so it is able to corral all of the cases that will arise in front of one court instead them spread them out all over California ((or other areas where the lost souls were from). There will be payouts here. I can promise that. As far as the crew negligence/alleged indifference would go, that would be covered under those claims. As far as the moral outrage goes, I was not there, you were not there and neither were the reporters. I have read that the flames had already engulfed the boat by the time they were awakened and they could not even get down their own stairs, much less the sleeping area, which is why one of them broke a leg jumping down to the deck. I have been around boats for over 30 years, been a charter captain for 10 and around divers/dive instructors for 5. I have never seen ANY such person charged with responsibility act in a cowardly fashion. I will reserve condemnation until all the facts are in. You should to. If it happened your way, it will come out. If happened in a way that nothing could be done, they have to live with that. Either way, many would rather be dead than live under that cloud.
__________________
You can't stop stupid; you have to work really hard just to contain it.
StukNotAnchored is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 02:36 PM   #37
tommy7
Registered User
 
tommy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Camarillo
Posts: 5,439
Re: Fire on the Conception

{Peace (correction, the Aquatic company) has had an excellent safety record}

Why in the world would you name the Peace and knowing that you are wrong, then correct yourself in parentheses! ??? Why not just re-write it correctly. Do you wish to disparage the Peace dive boat (guilt by association)? If that is what you are trying to do then its: Not cool! Dude
__________________
Each mans life is but a breath........Psalms 39.5
tommy7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 02:40 PM   #38
tommy7
Registered User
 
tommy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Camarillo
Posts: 5,439
Re: Fire on the Conception

John wrote "Bob, First of all it's not the Peace," ... Change it!
__________________
Each mans life is but a breath........Psalms 39.5
tommy7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 03:31 PM   #39
Bob Ballew
Registered User
 
Bob Ballew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 6,190
Re: Fire on the Conception

Tommy, Tommy....he corrected me and I corrected my mistake after his post so it clarifies what he was saying...and, my name is not Dude.....hmmm, your sense of humor is just as bizarre as mine.....I probably should have followed the advice of my other old timer friends to not bother posting if I want to avoid keyboard fights with keyboard warriors….then, I could become a shameless lurker like 90 percent of the others on Spearboard…...Then, again, the 90 percenters may be a lot smarter than I am....

Last edited by Bob Ballew; 09-06-2019 at 03:52 PM.
Bob Ballew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 05:12 PM   #40
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,978
Re: Fire on the Conception

I saw this on the TV News, there was no way to get out with the stairway compromised and in flames and the boat full of fire in possibly a minute or so.

The shock waves from this tragedy are going to roll on for some time and the repercussions are going to be significant, hopefully that lessons learned at the cost of so many lives (34 including one crew member), including families with kids lost in the blaze, will lead to better boat safety, vessel management and charter vessels that are up to the latest standards. Then there will be a desire to find someone to blame as lawyers descend on the case once the immediate shock and pain subsides, early days yet!

RIP to those lost and my condolences to the many families, it was a shocking thing to watch as rescuers on arrival were powerless to do anything as it was all too late.

I should add that the responders will be traumatized and just imagine the heartbreaking job of the recovery divers who retrieved the bodies from the wreck, you don't sleep easy after those sights, and the magnitude is almost overwhelming.

Last edited by popgun pete; 09-06-2019 at 05:31 PM.
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 06:13 PM   #41
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,978
Re: Fire on the Conception

Appears the vessel was an all-electric boat, so no gas. Doors were not locked, so were passengers incapacitated before the fire took hold throughout the lower decks or were they unable to get out due to escape paths being blocked by flames, and with the vessel possibly plunged into darkness, unable to access the rather tight fit escape hatch already examined on a sister vessel by the authorities.
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 06:36 PM   #42
rscottdds
Registered User
 
rscottdds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 255
Re: Fire on the Conception

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ballew View Post
I would urge everyone to reserve judgement until we see how it plays out...just one old fart's opinion on real life...
I couldn't agree more Bob. It amazes me that people are coming to the conclusions they are with no direct knowledge other than what they hear from the media. Thanks for being a voice of reason. Just one old fart's opinion of another old fart's opinion.
__________________
-Robert
rscottdds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 07:14 PM   #43
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,978
Re: Fire on the Conception

More info https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5577247/
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 07:19 PM   #44
PigStikr
Stupendous User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 486
Re: Fire on the Conception

Unfortunately eviscerating the dive boat industry will just lead to the extinction of spearfishing in CA, already well on the way with the MPA's and etc. If I was a crew member, traumatized already by the events, and not on watch and innocently asleep in the crew quarters above deck, it would further traumatize me to read about how the passengers were locked below, how I was a coward for failing to dive into a wall of flames despite breaking a leg - would that further the trauma? Would I become suicidal? Develop PTSD? An alternative would be to file multiple libel suits against anybody and everybody posting BS on the internet, clearing my name and at least gaining some financial security. I hope the boat owner would do the same, there are millions of dollars out there to be had and possibly he could use the cash to stay in business. Then maybe we could still hop on a dive boat instead of whale watching in the future.
__________________
PigStikr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2019, 07:40 PM   #45
mikelb
Registered User
 
mikelb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: HB, CA
Posts: 1,078
Re: Fire on the Conception

Game Over?! "No roaming night watchman on board per several law enforcement sources." No disrespect intended. Sad, sad, sad.
__________________
Actually, yes, that yt is almost 30#'s. Hell, it's almost as big as me!
mikelb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com