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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 06-05-2019, 04:12 PM   #1
makoa352
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Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

Love shooting my quiver of single rollers. Even for bigger game. I’ve set up an inverted roller from Mannysub but haven’t used it yet. I default to my single rollers (110-120’s) because they are accurate, simple, smooth, and I’m usually hunting reef fish and blue water on the same dive. With ono season getting good on Big Island I’m tempted to bring out the inverted roller. And then there are the double roller muzzles that I’ve considered using...but then again, my single rollers have been consistently reliable and deadly. My set ups are 14 mm small id or 16 mm with 7.5 mm shafts with minimal overhang. My guns are set up with reverse euro mechs (even the Aimrites). My bands are cut 1/2 of Barrel length, then pretensioned another .25% of Barrel adjusted +/- to the sweet spot of a smooth powerful controlled release. I know physics-wise a double roller or inverted roller should equal more power, range, penetration, etc but I’m thinking “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it...” but then again I am curious.
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:40 PM   #2
popgun pete
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Re: Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

Match the gun to the job!
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:24 PM   #3
makoa352
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Re: Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

Subjective answer IMO. The best gun for the job is the one that lands fish on your kui. Chris Coates and MJK shooting monster dog tooth tuna with single rollers and barbed shafts, when the gear heads say you need slip tips and multi banded guns...i like that. What i hoped to get is input and perspective from guys that can compare shooting the different roller set ups.



These including open water pelagics I’ve harvested with single rollers.
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:54 PM   #4
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Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

I haven’t had time to do a full specs and build post on this gun yet but it may help you a bit.

I took my paddy hopping gun- a pathos carbon 130 and did an inverted polispast build and absolutely love it so far- tho I’ve only plugged a handful of 20lb and under YT with it to date. In the pool it penetrates about 6” more than my 4 band 63” wong hybrid at 5m, passing a spearq8 like penetration test to 7m (not the same exact foam he uses but equally thick and as dense as I could find). The thing I like about the inverted polispast setup is that can remove bands easily if I know I don’t that much penetration.

The BFT have hung around Southern California for the last few years pretty well, and I found myself in two occasions where I was diving a paddy and had tuna zoom by at 50’. I’m not a fan of lugging around a 10lb tuna cannon every time I hop on a paddy for the off chance to shoot a tuna, nor am I fan of the huge recoil and inability to track of some of these monster guns so. But, I’m not out to just injure a fish that I can’t land with my gear, so I wanted a build that is suitable for those encounters with much larger game. My build gives me the same penetration as the medium sized tuna guns at a fraction of the weight with minimal recoil. (Again, only tested against my powered up wong hybrid for penetration so far)

In my opinion loading is a touch faster as you only have three total bands to load vs 4-6, recoil is nonexistent and it tracks pretty well. I’m going to build a winged/cuttlefish gun next because the bands being on the sides does affect tracking some.

I used a roisub roller and molded my own band hooks from epoxy. Minimal cost to turn a good gun into a great gun. If you wanted more or less bands for your application you could just put more or less on the pulleys and have a very versatile 110


End result, though I’m still testing it, is a lightweight, super accurate gun that threads paddy fish onto the shooting line without issue at 5m... I’m still waiting for that bluefin test tho . Expect test vids and a full description of parts used by July as I’m about to leave on vacation


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Old 06-05-2019, 07:00 PM   #5
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Re: Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

Here’s a pic of the band hooks I made to fit tube guns

Last pic is the first generation one mounted... don’t mind the weird colors, my daughter insisted on painting it with nail polish


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Old 06-05-2019, 07:27 PM   #6
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Re: Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

This black gadget is a rear anchor point that you attach on the barrel? How many bands can you attach to it?
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:43 PM   #7
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Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

Yes, it’s the same thing as the opaque one in the final picture, just more refined as the opaque one is one of my first prototypes.

I built this one for two band attachments but they could be built for more (though I don’t see a reason for more on a pipe gun). With the two attachments this offers, and one semipermanent attachment per side of the tube, you can do up to 3 band pairs (6 bands). You could throw more bands per hook, but I built it so that the width of the hooks lays the bands as flat as possible to the barrel.

I connect a band to each side of the tube before getting in the water, which remain in place all day and the other two band pairs get loaded onto the hooks each time I load the gun.

It screws in to the existing reel attachment, if you wanted to use a reel you could reinforce the tube and mount it forward of this, but my goal was maximizing length of band stretch as much as possible.

I think I’m somewhere around 150% pre stretch minimum up to about 370%, so the shaft is under tension until the rear shark fin passes the rollers. I still plan to play with this and see how it affects the system.

Better pictures detailing the layout.

To the OP - if you like this kind of approach I’d be happy to help talk you through the build, and with the components you already have it sounds like you might just need pulleys, some form of band hook (mine is a mold so I can cast more of the nice looking one), and possibly a thicker spear to fully use the available power if you go with more than 2 band pairs.





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Old 06-05-2019, 08:07 PM   #8
makoa352
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Re: Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

Thanks for the info. I did an inverted roller build using a 120 cm carbon cuttle bone shaped barrel I picked up. I have a Pathos D 2 handle and a Mannysub roller power muzzle and his invert band combination. I haven’t done a dedicated Blue Water hunt but usually get wahoo coming in close to shore so I always grab my single roller for all of the medium reef fish that also can tag the big ones that drift through. I imagined the invert as just a blue water-pelagic gun especially since my single rollers all have reels attached but my invert doesn’t because of the band cluster.
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:33 PM   #9
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Re: Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

Remember that cable rollerguns halve the force coming from the band battery, that means four band strands (two on each side) are the equivalent of one band (two if you count each side of the gun) on a band wrapping rollergun. On your gun you have six rubber strands with them all cocked, so that is a one and a half band rollergun equivalent.

A clear view top deck is the main advantage of a cable rollergun and no rubber bending losses with bands going around rollers.

I like the anchor as it is a compact arrangement held on with two screws (I think).
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:47 PM   #10
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Re: Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

What is your band setup and shaft size on the inverted roller?


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Old 06-05-2019, 09:33 PM   #11
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Re: Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

That's really cool and a Hell of a lot of Power on a Pathos 130 frame. Those Moulded parts are super nice. Do you have any video of that gun shooting in the pool? Are you using a 5/16"?
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Old 06-05-2019, 09:54 PM   #12
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Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

8mm hunt shaft currently. The stock pathos shaft was too whippy even on powered up conventional 14mm bands

I’ll get the vids done before July, leaving for two weeks for a vacation. Lots of tweaking to do still. I’ve only shot it 20 or so times with the 3 pairs of 16mm bands. I might go higher on the initial pair just to see what happens because that pair is relatively easy to load still as it’s assisted by the pulley. The other two pairs won’t go higher than 16mm on a 130 because they aren’t assisted and that length to pull them is already a chore and I don’t want people not to be able to load the gun when I loan it out.

Don’t want to hijack the thread so I’ll make one specific to the gun when the time comes.

The molded parts were pretty fun, I took an old reel base and covered it with clay, sculpted to the shape I wanted and cast it. It took 3 molds to get it perfect but now I can cast them in bulk. Or at least one per day until I see a need to make more molds.

I do have to give credit where it’s due to majdq8 for all of his informational videos which taught me the fundamentals of speargun design for power and accuracy

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Old 06-05-2019, 10:19 PM   #13
makoa352
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Re: Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

No worries...hijack the thread if you like. My set up is made with 2 x 16mm mannysub black progressive rubbers and 1 x 20 mm mannysub reactive red rubber. I have an 8mm double offset floppier shaft.

Nice to hear you Behslayer...it’s been awhile since I’ve been on.

I’ll post pics when I get back in town. I’ve followed Emmanuel/ Manny Sub’s and Chris Coates’ recommendations on roller set ups and have really dialed in my single rollers. I guess I’ll have to just take the invert out and hunt with it...
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:29 PM   #14
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Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

Awesome, mind posting pics of that setup when able? I might go all the way up to a 20 for my initial pair to see what happens!



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Old 06-06-2019, 03:34 AM   #15
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Re: Sing vs Double vs Invert Roller

Makoa, I moved to Big Island almost two years ago. Still haven't made it up to Hamakua coast. My little ones keep me closer. But I do make some trips. Mostly just dive around Kona. Gorgeous water. Can't complain at all. If you ever come down this way get in touch.

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