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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 03-04-2018, 02:45 AM   #16
Diving Gecko
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Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

I could be mistaken but I don't think Alemmani has a gun with the setup that Nevin has been using for some years now? The Gladiator guns are generally demultiplied (pulley) guns with a kicker band. Alemmani's pulley guns differ in not having kicker bands, I think. And it seems the big Vela one has an inverted roller band, too (or whatever the term is when the band rolls over a pulley at the back of the gun). So, in my eyes the setup and philosophy is quite different. It seems Nevin definitely wants to avoid any rubber bands going over any pulley whereas Alemmani doesn't mind that on his guns.

Nevin, your work is outstanding as always. Thanks for the look.


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Old 03-04-2018, 03:06 AM   #17
2fishin2
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
I could be mistaken but I don't think Alemmani has a gun with the setup that Nevin has been using for some years now? The Gladiator guns are generally demultiplied (pulley) guns with a kicker band. Alemmani's pulley guns differ in not having kicker bands, I think. And it seems the big Vela one has an inverted roller band, too (or whatever the term is when the band rolls over a pulley at the back of the gun). So, in my eyes the setup and philosophy is quite different. It seems Nevin definitely wants to avoid any rubber bands going over any pulley whereas Alemmani doesn't mind that on his guns.

Nevin, your work is outstanding as always. Thanks for the look.


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Check out the site and judge for yourself https://www.alemanni-sub.com/en/prod...y/demultiplied
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Old 03-04-2018, 03:35 AM   #18
Diving Gecko
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Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fishin2 View Post
Check out the site and judge for yourself https://www.alemanni-sub.com/en/prod...y/demultiplied


I just did, and my thoughts are still the same;-). But maybe I'm missing something...? But I don't see any demultiplied Alemannis with a kicker band just as I don't see any new Gladiators with any rubber taking 180 degree turns? Might be subtle differences to most of us but in the world of these pulley experts it's probably seen as quite substantial?
It might even be so that G went down the demultiplied route earlier than big A? Not that it matters as the technology is not really new or proprietary to any of them and supposedly competition is good for the end consumers;-)

No matter what, since the first time I saw G's creations here, I've been amazed with his handicraft. Especially his super clean wood to carbon transitions.
I actually saw two of his guns in Andre's shop in Bali a few weeks back and they are no less stunning in real life.

I've said before that as an airgun nerd loving the power in a small package that if I ever give up on air, demultiplied is very tempting to me. Although some feel they are complicated but after traveling for 6 weeks now with extra pistons, shock absorbers, speciality tools, a pump and a ton of various seals and o-rings, demultiplied guns seem simple enough for me;-)



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Last edited by Diving Gecko; 03-04-2018 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 03-04-2018, 06:13 AM   #19
kodama
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

I follow the reasoning behind the simplicity of a regular band gun. But with my own gear I had so little failures ( knock on wood) that I believe if you maintain it properly the extra complexity is not that much of an issue.
If you really like the minimalist route a pole spear is the way to go.


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Old 03-04-2018, 06:27 AM   #20
2fishin2
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
I just did, and my thoughts are still the same;-). But maybe I'm missing something...? But I don't see any demultiplied Alemannis with a kicker band just as I don't see any new Gladiators with any rubber taking 180 degree turns? Might be subtle differences to most of us but in the world of these pulley experts it's probably seen as quite substantial?
It might even be so that G went down the demultiplied route earlier than big A? Not that it matters as the technology is not really new or proprietary to any of them and supposedly competition is good for the end consumers;-)

No matter what, since the first time I saw G's creations here, I've been amazed with his handicraft. Especially his super clean wood to carbon transitions.
I actually saw two of his guns in Andre's shop in Bali a few weeks back and they are no less stunning in real life.

I've said before that as an airgun nerd loving the power in a small package that if I ever give up on air, demultiplied is very tempting to me. Although some feel they are complicated but after traveling for 6 weeks now with extra pistons, shock absorbers, speciality tools, a pump and a ton of various seals and o-rings, demultiplied guns seem simple enough for me;-)



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Not to beat a dead horse....

https://www.alemanni-sub.com/en/prod...la-135-special

I just purchased one of these in a 120cm size

Alemanni makes both demultiplied and double rollers. One thing I like about these is that there are channels on top and bottom for rubbers to sit in.

Unsure as to why Gguns have done away from them. They make sense as bands stay closer and tighter to the gun to cut down on vibration and frightening fish.

Either way the Gguns are also works of art.

What came first chicken or egg?
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Old 03-04-2018, 07:43 AM   #21
gspearguns
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fishin2 View Post
Not to beat a dead horse....

https://www.alemanni-sub.com/en/prod...la-135-special

I just purchased one of these in a 120cm size

Alemanni makes both demultiplied and double rollers. One thing I like about these is that there are channels on top and bottom for rubbers to sit in.

Unsure as to why Gguns have done away from them. They make sense as bands stay closer and tighter to the gun to cut down on vibration and frightening fish.

Either way the Gguns are also works of art.

What came first chicken or egg?
I qoute just last post but my answer is for few more.

First of all, all my rollerguns have band channels except the last one I presented here. And I wrote noew roller is platform for various tests and that is reason why there are no channels.
That Vela 135 from link you posted is also without band channels.
I am building invert rollers since 2012. Same year I presented one skecth with rear pulley but I never made a gun with it. Sketch is presented on one Croatian spearfishing forum. And if I make roller with rear pulleys many people will say I am following Alemanni, but I maybe just make some old idea come out from paper to wood.
I don't know when Alemanni started with invert rollers but in 2012. there are just some rumors about first vela. His demultiplied x2 models came in 2015.
In a meantime Seal, who tragically died recently, presented his roller with rear pulleys and after a while added moveable pulley at the bottom side.
What I want to say is that many spearfishermans heard about Alemanni because of his great marketing. Small manufacturers and enthusiast still are unknown, or not so popular as Alemanni.
As I can see he is not first in anything about rollerguns. For example Soriano Stefano made roller with rear pulleys few years before Alemanni. Oreste Vacondio made invert roller with some variations and patented it in 2010. That system still not came to production, maybe Contesub will start with it. System is called Volcan.
I don't have any against be compared with others, but from your posts I can see you think Alemanni is leader in ideas and everbody followed him. It just is not true.
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:09 AM   #22
2fishin2
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

I will leave this thread alone as your guns are great creations that stand on their own in terms of quality craftsmanship.
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:16 AM   #23
gspearguns
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

You can answer if you want. I just want say that everyone of us have his own way in this job. Those who try to copy someone else are not long lasting.
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:43 AM   #24
2fishin2
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjZ0r5rg6bA
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Old 03-04-2018, 09:24 AM   #25
gspearguns
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

http://www.fishingpatents.com/japan-...-patents.shtml
second from the top, seems we all are followers of Katsuo Ishida

@2fishin2 Maybe you get me completely wrong. I don't want to say I invent anything, maybe some small thing I made first but who cares. World is big enough that on different places different people can make same thing independently. Just I am in making spearguns long enough and can say I am not following anyone, espetially not Alemanni. Sure guns can be similar, but all guns have trigger, handle, bands...They are all similar in some way.

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Old 03-04-2018, 12:46 PM   #26
Diving Gecko
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fishin2 View Post
Not to beat a dead horse....

https://www.alemanni-sub.com/en/prod...la-135-special

I just purchased one of these in a 120cm size

Alemanni makes both demultiplied and double rollers. One thing I like about these is that there are channels on top and bottom for rubbers to sit in.

Unsure as to why Gguns have done away from them. They make sense as bands stay closer and tighter to the gun to cut down on vibration and frightening fish.

Either way the Gguns are also works of art.

What came first chicken or egg?


Gotcha, I did indeed miss the kicker, sorry about that but the inverted rear pulley band is still different. Personally, I find the Gladiator guns just a hair prettier but then again, I always liked the underdogs.
I'm sure your new purchase will be great. As far as I remember, you have some Abellans, too? Would be great to hear some comparison thoughts once you have some time in on the new gun.


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Old 03-10-2018, 06:20 AM   #27
kodama
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
.



The No Track is interesting. I understood the benefit. Any slight deviation in the gun is mitigated.

I still donít really understand the no track concept.
I can see how a slight deviation from straight is mitigated but I donít understand how it can improve anything else. I am trying to learn here can some of you builders explain the concept please?

If you have no track at all you completely rely on the direction of the contracting bands or dyneema wishbone to propel the shaft in the correct direction I suppose? It seems to me there is more chance of deviation this way. What am I missing here?




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Old 03-14-2018, 02:43 PM   #28
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

That is a great idea ... I mean to have a platform where you can try different variables and try out different things and see how they work out.

As for tracks, I use a system where the shaft only touches the track in 3 or 4 locations to reduce friction. I used that on my Abellan mods and basically every speargun I have. I think 2 points of contact is too little as even an 8mm shaft will have some sag at around 100cm. The shaft only needs to be about 1mm above the track ... so you only actually need 3 small strips of track where shaft has contact. What is critical though is that you also have a perfect shaft to trigger box fitting. The shaft has to almost kiss the top of the trigger box. This way when you fire the shaft does not jump down to the track and shaft stays super stable.
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:54 AM   #29
gspearguns
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

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...What is critical though is that you also have a perfect shaft to trigger box fitting. The shaft has to almost kiss the top of the trigger box. This way when you fire the shaft does not jump down to the track and shaft stays super stable.
Agree...
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Old 03-15-2018, 04:09 PM   #30
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Re: Gladiator 100 - Testing platform

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Originally Posted by gspearguns View Post
Agree...
Good lord, photos of your guns should come with a XXX rating..

Porn..
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