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Old 06-08-2017, 03:38 PM   #1
hwy1strat
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Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

I recently bought a a mako predator pro in 70cm. Its got two 16mm bands on it and a 110cm long 6.5mm shaft. I was a little disappointed in the range when I got to use it this past weekend. I realize this is only a 70cm gun but that shaft starts falling as soon as it leaves the muzzle. The bands seem really long as they have a great deal of stretch left in them when they are cocked back. I was thinking of rerigging the gun with some 14.5mm small ID bands and putting a 7mm shaft that's only 100mm. I want the shorter shaft because this is my murky water gun and I would appreciate having it a little shorter. Anyone have any experience with hot rodding these guns? Are there any after market mechs for these guns to get the shaft farther back?

Thanks for the help,
Travis
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Old 06-08-2017, 05:08 PM   #2
captain.ed
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

Because it is short I would look for a thinner diameter shaft, 250lb mono shooting line, and the 14.5 mm bands you mentioned. I don't know where the mech is placed, where the tabs sit, or what the distance is between the shaft tabs and the band slot so I can't tell you what length bands to go with but most stock spearguns are sold with bands that are not maximized for stretch/energy. Spearitco has a band length calculator that works pretty well.

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Old 06-08-2017, 06:19 PM   #3
FreediveCA
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

I personally prefer a thicker shaft to a thinner shaft. Less whip and it seems like my thinner shafts bend too easy. You'd be on point with the 14.5mm small id as you say, and as further confirmed above. I don't think 16mm is appropriate for the shaft.

If you feel like there is too much slack on the bands perhaps there is. A calculator was mentioned above. I have not used that, but if people have used it with success I'm sure it works. In case you want it I pasted a reply below I did a while back when asked about measuring band length. This is an equation I created for myself to figure out how long to cut my rubber. It's long winded so if you already know how to cut your bands or if you are completely uninterested I'd stop reading now.

"I'll start from the end equation that I have for myself: (D/P) + 1" = rubber length.

Now to figure out what "D," "P," and 1" means. First we are going to start with "D" which is the distance the bands will reach when cocked. To do that you are going to measure from the center of the band hole to the loading tab. Take that number and multiply it by 2. Why 2? Because the rubber needs to go down both sides of the stock. Now subtract 2. Why 2? Because your wishbones are going to be about 2" and they are not included in figuring out how long to cut your bands. So again, D = (length from center of band hole to loading tab x 2) - 2.

"P" is simply the desired percentage of stretch. So if you are going to do 350% P = 3.5.

Now what about the 1 in the equation. Well that is added because you are going to have about .5" on each end of the band for where you tie your constrictor knot. Not part of the band stretch though since it is not stretching.

Now to give a little test. Let's say your 57" Riffe has 50" of band stretch (I don't know if it does, but it makes a nice even number for an example). D = (50 x 2) - 2 = 98. P let's go with 350% or 3.5. So you have (98/3.5) + 1 = 29. Your rubber will be 29" for 350% band stretch.

So there you have it if you want it. You can either go to your local dive shop and have them do it for you, or you can go to your local dive shop and buy the rubber, dyneema, etc. and do it yourself. I prefer to do it myself because you can dial it in. Sometimes (mostly on the first batch of rubbers for homemade guns) I will start at 325% and work my way up until I find the spot where my gun is shooting it's best. I do that because I can always remove rubber to make it shorter. If you start at a tighter length you can't add rubber so you're cutting a new band."
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Old 06-08-2017, 06:26 PM   #4
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

Just realized the pasted reply included my example to his specific gun. Don't think I'm crazy going off talking about some Riffe when your gun is a Mako. In any case this should work across the board. I'm sure I've made it more complex than need be, or this may be common knowledge universally known. Could even just be a reinvention of the same damn wheel, but at least it's here for anyone who wants it.

If anyone comes across this and sees any flaws please point them out so I can correct myself.
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Old 06-08-2017, 09:12 PM   #5
Diving Gecko
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

A nice band length calculator here:
https://divecenter.dk/rubbers.html

And to always pimp my side - you can't beat a pneumatic for power in a small package. You can find good deals on them secondhand on ebay and craigslist from time to time. Even a 90cm airgun will be shorter than what you are shooting now and you wont lack power. An airgun in 70cm is great for holes and very low viz. It will also take free swimming fish at 2-3 wraps.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 06-10-2017 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 06-08-2017, 09:40 PM   #6
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwy1strat View Post
I recently bought a a mako predator pro in 70cm. Its got two 16mm bands on it and a 110cm long 6.5mm shaft. I was a little disappointed in the range when I got to use it this past weekend. I realize this is only a 70cm gun but that shaft starts falling as soon as it leaves the muzzle. The bands seem really long as they have a great deal of stretch left in them when they are cocked back. I was thinking of rerigging the gun with some 14.5mm small ID bands and putting a 7mm shaft that's only 100mm. I want the shorter shaft because this is my murky water gun and I would appreciate having it a little shorter. Anyone have any experience with hot rodding these guns? Are there any after market mechs for these guns to get the shaft farther back?

Thanks for the help,
Travis
I am curious, did you buy the gun new - from MAKO? They typically tie their bands pretty tight/short. A 70 cm gun with a single wrap of line can not shoot very far simply because of the line length limitation. With two bands, the gun should be pretty powerful and fast out to the single wrap range.

It seems strange that the gun would come new with bands that you feel have a lot more stretch left in them. Something seems strange with your description?

If you feel the current bands are too long, I would suggest that you try shortening one or both and see if you think it performs better, before you buy new bands and a different shaft. I think that with a gun that short and light and two very tight bands, you are going to be approaching the threshold where recoil is going to come into play, especially with respect to accuracy.
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Old 06-08-2017, 09:54 PM   #7
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
..........70cm is great for holes and very low viz.
.....and thieves!
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Old 06-09-2017, 02:38 AM   #8
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

With a gun that size you want to have the bands where you can just barely load them. If you feel the bands are slack then just cut them shorter and shorter until you feel you are at the max level where you can comfortably load them. I agree with Diving Gecko that with that small size,a pneumatic makes a lot more sense.
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Old 06-09-2017, 05:43 AM   #9
Azure Recluse
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
With a gun that size you want to have the bands where you can just barely load them.
This


I use a RA 70 as my dirty water/ hole gun with a 7mm shaft (110cm) and a very very tight 16mm band. Different brand of gun but same concept... I have never understood people using 2 bands for a gun that short. I use single rubbers on all my guns up to 100cm. Keep the spear tip razor sharp and it will be effective within a single wrap
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Old 06-09-2017, 06:40 AM   #10
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

As the others have said, I think the biggest single thing you can do to power it up is take the bands off and cut them as short as you are comfortable with. For a 70cm, I wouldn't even put the second band back on. Just use a single short 14.5.

Shaft dia. - I use the thinner shaft because I hunt small fish. You do what you want.

Line - use the thinnest mono you can get from Mako or Neptonics. 250lb max.

I have a Mako 65 set up with a single, short 16mm band. Rigged with 200lb mono and a 6.5mm shaft. I never have noticed a problem with drop, but the gun matches my hunting vis (average 6-10'). I don't hit everything I shoot at, but that isn't the gun's fault...
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Old 06-09-2017, 07:31 AM   #11
Azure Recluse
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

I forgot.... thin mono as mentioned above! I use 80kg cressi line which is thinner than 250b mono, and fairly abrasion resistant.
I've been reading about the tennis line by Spearq8 and think that would be worth a look at
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Old 06-09-2017, 08:16 AM   #12
hwy1strat
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfjf View Post
I am curious, did you buy the gun new - from MAKO? They typically tie their bands pretty tight/short. A 70 cm gun with a single wrap of line can not shoot very far simply because of the line length limitation. With two bands, the gun should be pretty powerful and fast out to the single wrap range.

It seems strange that the gun would come new with bands that you feel have a lot more stretch left in them. Something seems strange with your description?

If you feel the current bands are too long, I would suggest that you try shortening one or both and see if you think it performs better, before you buy new bands and a different shaft. I think that with a gun that short and light and two very tight bands, you are going to be approaching the threshold where recoil is going to come into play, especially with respect to accuracy.
Yes, I bought the gun brand new.
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:04 PM   #13
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

Hey hwy1strat,

Give me a call when you get a chance. This does not sound normal. I killed this Cobia in my avatar with my 60cm predator.
The only thing I can think of is that my gun builder, Billy accidentally put longer bands on your gun.
To be honest, I have never seen him make a mistake like this, but anything is possible.

My latex tubing is made by Primeline which is used by many of the top custom gun makers, so I don't think it is a problem with the tubing.

Regarding the issue of one band or two, I agree with Azure Recluse in using one band, but when I'm hunting in and around rocks, I like using 2 bands.

With 2 bands, if I see a fish holed up, I can take one band off and just shoot with a single band which is all that is needed at close range.

Anyway, give us a call on Monday so we can see what size bands you have.

dive safe,
dano
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:48 PM   #14
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

Your shooting line is maybe hanging up, did you check that as it can pull the shaft up short? To find out shoot the gun with the line free and see if there is any difference.
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Old 06-10-2017, 02:45 AM   #15
kavachi
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Re: Mako predator pro 70cm needs more power!

for comparison i'm running just a single 14.3mm small ID primeline at 400% on 120 x 6.5mm Sigal shaft [very streamlined shaft with small pins, recessed flopper, cone] on pipegun with 100cm bandstretch, 1.7mm hard mono, and have been pretty happy with the punch

I use it when my daily driver 140cm bandstretch twin 14.5mm on 160 x 7.5mm Hunt shaft is too much to swing, or too much hassle excavating from the coral

400% band on a 70cm shooter....sans bridle that must be bout the length of an office rubber band
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