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Old 06-17-2017, 08:16 AM   #136
seal77
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

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@Seal ... you sold me a gun that would not shoot and needed many hours of work to get the rigging correct. I paid 1600 euro for the gun (without shaft) and basically I had to do the work you should have done to get the gun to shoot correctly. I FIXED YOUR DAMNED GUN AND MADE IT SHOOT BETTER !!! I have video of when I finally managed to get your setup to shoot ... with your bands and your rigging. I have the penetration test and I have the accuracy test and I will by happy to post that here. I spent over 2 weeks fixing that gun ... fixing the trigger seating and trigger sear angles ... fixing the line rigging ... fixing the pulley distances ... fixing brand new bands ... fixing the band notches so it doesn't guillotine your fingers. The result was a gun that shot as good as it did in the youtube test. The gun that was setup with your bands and unmodified trigger did not shoot with the same accuracy or the same power. So instead of saying THANK YOU for doing what you should have done, you actually have the nerve to sit here and talk like that ??? I am willing to put the video here of BEFORE and AFTER and maybe others can make the judgement of whether I was confused or simply not aware of all the magnificent technological advances of your roller gun.

I swear ... if it was anyone else they would have shoved that gun back in your face. You want to sell a gun ... sell a gun that works. It is bad business practice to do what you did ... and incredibly rude to say what you said after you KNOW the trouble I went through to finally get the gun to shoot as well as it did.
The things you say are a too exaggerated as always,thats almost a lie! The gun was working good originaly and I have tested this setup in real conditions in the sea.I just didnt have the proper conditions to shoot targets at long range in the winter then and I accepted you will do this properly.But you was not able to shoot even once with my original setup becouse of your ridiculous loading mistake.Actually I overestimated your experience and thats why I said our case is too personal.I wouldnt trust so much to anybody else and I am always more specific and detailed with the requirements of other people that dont have your skills.
You didnt make any dramatic change of the settings and I didnt see the dramatic performance improovment in your video tests(if I accept that they are objective enough).And its a simple polispast,i never pretended its a miracle device and some different system than what other builders make too.It was just a platform that can take heavy loads,but you never tried a real improvement of the power setup-what I thought was your idea.
The fact that you touched the trigger on your taste doesnt mean that it really needed that.Why dont you say the fact that no builder dared to make so long and good working simple reverse two part trigger with so low offset at the same time?This is inovation for me,but may be you understand things different.And I dont have just one,I have several different models triggers,tested with half ton load.All of them can be adjusted two work thousand different ways.When there is a question I give a choise between longer or shorter,softer and harder trigger pull.Believe me people have so different tastes about that.I left your trigger perticulary as it comes from the laser cutting,so you can have enogh space to adjust it on your sufisticated taste.But you didnt appreshiade that.It was another missunderstanding based on your selfconfidence.
If you have some engineering knowledge must know that its easyer to make the long and hard stock trigger pull softer and shorter,but the oposite is difficult!I even make triggers with spare sears that offer different trigger pull with a simple change.Who else does that?
A TRUE FACT -I kindly offered you to send me back that gun so I can rebuild it from simple to reverse polispast-the best system so far.And since you are talking about money THAT WAS ON MY EXPENCE.Then you and all the people that care for speargun development would have much more clear sight on the evolution of different systems.That would be better in the name of science than our present stupid conversation.
Your didnt accept that,wich really surprised me becouse I had a totaly different opinion for you!I thought you like the development and inovations.Instead of that you prefered to claim that rollerguns are shit by the moment,unlike to the half spearfishing world.
RECENTLY I MADE YOU ANOTHER OFFER- to replace your old polispast with my newest model gun,ON MY EXPENCES AGAIN.And all this not becouse your gun is bad,but to show you that you havent seen everything in this world yet to be so marginal and even arogant.As a customer,nobody has ever made such gestures for me personaly.
Of cource nothing happent again wich is really weird for your reputation of a discoverer and a man who dares to give a fair score to builders work.Instead I get "kind" words from you and honestly said its first time in my life I meet such mentality.Or there is something else wrong in the whole storry with you that I dont understand!
SО WHAT EXACТLY DO YOU WANT ME TO THANK YOU ABOUT?

You didnt answer to my latest question,wich could be verry usefull to the members of the spearfishing comunity that dont have the time and skills to modify whole guns and handles and are confused by so many tests and contradictory information in the internet.What is the simplest way to make a speargun shoot higher and more accurate in two minutes? Its a simple solution of your darkest nightmare that can save thousands of guns on the planet from extinction

Last edited by seal77; 06-17-2017 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 06-17-2017, 07:58 PM   #137
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

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Originally Posted by seal77 View Post
What is the simplest way to make a speargun shoot higher and more accurate in two minutes? Its a simple solution of your darkest nightmare that can save thousands of guns on the planet from extinction
You will have to tell us rather than keep everyone in suspense.
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Old 06-18-2017, 01:14 AM   #138
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

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The things you say are a too exaggerated as always,thats almost a lie! The gun was working good originaly and I have tested this setup in real conditions in the sea.I just didnt have the proper conditions to shoot targets at long range in the winter then and I accepted you will do this properly.But you was not able to shoot even once with my original setup becouse of your ridiculous loading mistake.Actually I overestimated your experience and thats why I said our case is too personal.I wouldnt trust so much to anybody else and I am always more specific and detailed with the requirements of other people that dont have your skills.
You didnt make any dramatic change of the settings and I didnt see the dramatic performance improovment in your video tests(if I accept that they are objective enough).And its a simple polispast,i never pretended its a miracle device and some different system than what other builders make too.It was just a platform that can take heavy loads,but you never tried a real improvement of the power setup-what I thought was your idea.
The fact that you touched the trigger on your taste doesnt mean that it really needed that.Why dont you say the fact that no builder dared to make so long and good working simple reverse two part trigger with so low offset at the same time?This is inovation for me,but may be you understand things different.And I dont have just one,I have several different models triggers,tested with half ton load.All of them can be adjusted two work thousand different ways.When there is a question I give a choise between longer or shorter,softer and harder trigger pull.Believe me people have so different tastes about that.I left your trigger perticulary as it comes from the laser cutting,so you can have enogh space to adjust it on your sufisticated taste.But you didnt appreshiade that.It was another missunderstanding based on your selfconfidence.
If you have some engineering knowledge must know that its easyer to make the long and hard stock trigger pull softer and shorter,but the oposite is difficult!I even make triggers with spare sears that offer different trigger pull with a simple change.Who else does that?
A TRUE FACT -I kindly offered you to send me back that gun so I can rebuild it from simple to reverse polispast-the best system so far.And since you are talking about money THAT WAS ON MY EXPENCE.Then you and all the people that care for speargun development would have much more clear sight on the evolution of different systems.That would be better in the name of science than our present stupid conversation.
Your didnt accept that,wich really surprised me becouse I had a totaly different opinion for you!I thought you like the development and inovations.Instead of that you prefered to claim that rollerguns are shit by the moment,unlike to the half spearfishing world.
RECENTLY I MADE YOU ANOTHER OFFER- to replace your old polispast with my newest model gun,ON MY EXPENCES AGAIN.And all this not becouse your gun is bad,but to show you that you havent seen everything in this world yet to be so marginal and even arogant.As a customer,nobody has ever made such gestures for me personaly.
Of cource nothing happent again wich is really weird for your reputation of a discoverer and a man who dares to give a fair score to builders work.Instead I get "kind" words from you and honestly said its first time in my life I meet such mentality.Or there is something else wrong in the whole storry with you that I dont understand!
SО WHAT EXACТLY DO YOU WANT ME TO THANK YOU ABOUT?

You didnt answer to my latest question,wich could be verry usefull to the members of the spearfishing comunity that dont have the time and skills to modify whole guns and handles and are confused by so many tests and contradictory information in the internet.What is the simplest way to make a speargun shoot higher and more accurate in two minutes? Its a simple solution of your darkest nightmare that can save thousands of guns on the planet from extinction

I am lying ?? OK ... you seem to forget that emails are stored on a hard disc. I will not sully this thread anymore with your crap and will move it over to the original Seal Double roller thread I posted some while back. You have no clue how methodical I am when I work on a project ... I take pictures of everything and I save videos of all my tests ... that is how I document something and work on engineering it better. I do this every time I build a building or project in my real work ... or in this case rebuild and fix a poorly built speargun as a hobby project. It will not be pretty but you asked for it and so I feel free to share what I had not shared before.

With regards to me not being able to load the gun initially ... yes that is true. It was impossible to load the gun with all the bands on ... but MAYBE ... just MAYBE ... that was because you had told me that this gun was a SINGLE ACTION gun. Your selling point was that I could load the gun topside with TWO loading strokes and get more power than my 3 loading strokes with the Albacore 120. Had I known that I would need 4 loading strokes to load a gun that would give me LESS than two loading strokes on classic gun ... I would have NEVER purchased that gun because it would have been moving backwards not forwards. Your selling point was that the bottom pulleys would do the magic of making it possible to load the heavy band load on bottom topside. For the life of me I cannot understand why you would add 2 more bands to try and put more loading power on a loaded pulley bottom side ???? You do understand that you then have the pulleys and the roller physics working against you ???? So whatever power you add to those bands will be divided !!!! What a genius you are ... really so smart! Anyway that was day 1 of my testing which took around 1 month and about 10 pool sessions.

As for you loading and testing the gun before sending it to me ... that is just pure BS and one big LIE. That gun never touched water in the configuration you sent me ... EVER. There is no way in hell you could have loaded the gun and you seem to forget that in your email that you admitted you didn't have time to test the configuration and you purposely set the bands higher than you usually did because you thought I was "experienced" (whatever the hell that means) and I could handle heavy bands. Yes ... but I am human ... and there was this slight problem of the wishbones popping and the band knots coming off under such high tension !!! I grew up loading stiff 20mm bands to the back notch so I can load bands that most spearos can't even get to the first tab. I do Have video of that strange popping phenomenon! As for your magnificent trigger ... laser cutting ... are you serious ??? I mean come on ... more like hack saw cutting ... but at least if you use a hack saw, spend some time with a file to clean things off a little. The trigger you sent me was the most disgusting piece of shoddy workmanship I have ever seen. You can NO CLUE of how to build a good trigger and the materials and workmanship was appalling! I spent hours fixing that damned thing so that it would shoot well ... and countless hours to set the trigger seating with the track correct. Anyway I will go into that on the other thread.

As for "fixing" the gun to shoot higher !!??? ... are you really serious ???? I don't want the gun to shoot high !!! ... I want the gun to shoot with a FLAT trajectory! That means I aim at a target at 1m and I hit exactly where I aim and then I move to 6m and aim exactly there again. This makes accurate shooting in hunting situations ridiculously easy you don't have to factor in shaft drop. That is what I mean when I say that a gun shoots flat ... not that it shoots 8 inches high at 1m and then hits where you are aiming at 6 meters . Do you have a magic trick for that ??? Forget the "two minutes" ... I'll give you a full day!!!

Last edited by spearq8; 06-18-2017 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:00 AM   #139
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

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You will have to tell us rather than keep everyone in suspense.
I agree, this is the second teaser and though it sounds like it should be something everyone knows, I don't - and would still like to know
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:43 AM   #140
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

Interesting..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX2cNb-bm0A
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:56 PM   #141
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

That is the best shooting rollergun I've seen so far. I wish there was a side view to diagnose the low deviation.


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Old 06-20-2017, 02:13 PM   #142
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

Pretty amazing for someone to be able to shoot a 10mm Shaft that far one handed with very little recoil.
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Old 06-21-2017, 12:06 PM   #143
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

Agreed. Pretty amazing stability at that level of power.

I'm modeling an inverted roller off of the same dimensions. I plan on using a 11/32 (9mm/9.5mm?) and no "booster band" to see if I could further reduce recoil and maybe get the same accuracy that he is able to get with the Vela 130.

Generally speaking, because the shafts are relatively short for the amount of power, I'd guess that shaft whip/flex is less of a problem than traditional guns with the same profile.

While increased mass equals increased force (especially at longer distances), I'm hoping the 11/32 shaft will be accurate out to 8+ meters, even if there is slightly less penetration at that distance as compared to a 3/8 shaft.
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Old 06-21-2017, 01:13 PM   #144
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

11/32" is 8.7mm usually referred to as 9mm when comparing American to Euro.
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Old 06-24-2017, 11:30 PM   #145
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

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Originally Posted by jstiver09 View Post
That is the best shooting rollergun I've seen so far. I wish there was a side view to diagnose the low deviation.


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It is the best roller gun in both quality and in performance. But at least with the 130 double roller, it is competing with the 2 banded classic guns ... not the 3 banded classic guns. Will the 135 make a huge jump and be able to compete with a 3 banded classic gun? ... I really don't know and need to test that. Was really upset that the Vela 135 was not the gun that was brought in. According to Andrea who shot both, he thinks it is not even close. I will say that he thought much differently before, as he really did not realize how much power was possible with a 3 banded classic. One of his main guns is a customized C4 Urukay 120 with 4 x 16mm bands. I have seen him land several YFT over 200lbs with it. He has added mass to the belly of the C4 gun (in the form of a huge teak belly) and shoots it with an 8.5mm shaft.

The Alemmani uses some tricks to keep shots high, but I think they do that at the cost of lost performance. It is by far the highest quality and best performing roller speargun that I have tried, but the 130 came setup with an 8.5mm shaft ... too heavy IMHO. It shot much better with an 8mm shaft. The trajectory of it with an 8mm shaft is similar to that of a Denton 120 or a Pathos Sniper 125 ... maybe a tiny bit lower shooting at 5m and 6m ... penetration performance was also similar when using the 8mm Hunt recessed shaft. There used to be a video of the Vela 130 and Vela 135 with 2 shots side by side ... not sure where it is anymore.
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Old 06-25-2017, 03:55 AM   #146
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

out of curiosity I just checked in with FreediveShop.....Incl freight to Australia, the Vela 135 Special comes in at AUD$4000. Alemanni, the Bugatti of spearguns!
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Old 06-25-2017, 04:02 AM   #147
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

I guess that's why no ones thrown Majd a loaner yet
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Old 06-25-2017, 09:35 AM   #148
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

I have yet to see a 2 banded pipe gun bury a 10mm shaft in a target at 8mtrs?
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:45 PM   #149
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

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Was really upset that the Vela 135 was not the gun that was brought in. According to Andrea who shot both, he thinks it is not even close.
Majd, what did you (he) mean by this? The Vela 135 and the standard 130 double roller are not even close as in the Vela 135 is that much better? Or was he saying the Albacore and the Vela were not even close, and in which way?
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Old 06-25-2017, 02:36 PM   #150
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Re: Alemanni Demultiplied Rollerguns

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Majd, what did you (he) mean by this? The Vela 135 and the standard 130 double roller are not even close as in the Vela 135 is that much better? Or was he saying the Albacore and the Vela were not even close, and in which way?
He meant that although the Vela 135 was much more powerful than the other rollers, he did not think it had the power of the Albacore 130 I had setup. He really just couldn't believe how much power it had and got very excited with the pull of the shaft at the end of the shot. It totally blew away his 4 banded custom Urukay in the penetration test and and of course all the other guns. It was also by far the most accurate gun he shot ... all his shots with the gun (@6m from tip) were not more than 1 inch from the bulls eye dead center. Initially he did not like the feel of the handle as it was big for his hand ... but after shooting well with it he decided he wanted his C4 with the same handle. He couldn't get around his head where the power was coming from as to him it did not make sense. But never underestimate the effectiveness of efficiency and stable shaft flight.

I will say that the gun was shooting more powerful than I had it set before as I figured the bands were old and had stretched out (I had over 200 shots in them) and thus on the first 2 bands I cut 2cm off each band which pushed the band stretch to around 390%. The thing was that the gun shot like the bands were @ 390% and at 7m penetration test the shaft went almost clean through ... didn't go fully through because the line ran out ... and the shaft still pulled his arm after the shot. So it looks like things can improve even more ... there is about 6cm of free real estate space band stretch with the 170cm shaft. Of course I can also go 390% or even 400% ... especially now that I know that there will not be a significant performance loss with the bands with time (thanks Diving Gecko) ... but I don't think many can load those bands at 400% so it is reasonable to keep testing at 380%. I did do a few tweaks on the gun and I need to know if that made a performance difference. But really other than the handle, I don't think it all adds to much.

In the end ... it is all speculation. Until we put the Vela 135 in the pool and test it side by side ... nobody knows for sure and you have to feel that the roller platform will improve as well. The point is that I think the classic platform still has room to grow as I think modding the handle allows you to really channel recoil into shaft velocity very efficiently while making felt recoil very comfortable. With stable shaft flight you get very high velocities and also a nice by product ... high accuracy!
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