Home | Tournaments | Calendar | Weather | Merchandise | Sponsors |
|
Technical Spearfishing Technical Scuba diving is generally defined as going deeper than 130 feet. You must have the proper training for this extreme aspect of spearfishing. |
|
Thread Tools | Rating: | Display Modes |
01-04-2008, 03:17 PM | #16 |
Forum Administrator
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 16,466
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
Yes Randy..............I had that contingency built in (along with an ample pony of emergency gas for safety). If I decided the envelope was being pushed too far, I would have simply cut the spear line and lost the fish. I find technical spearfishing is all about decision paradigms while multi-tasking. During tech and trimix training with a good instructor, the "what if" scenario analysis is pretty important. This sort of spearfishing is definitely not everyone's cup of tea for sure. Some people's nails grow too slow.
__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu “Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.” ---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996 |
01-04-2008, 05:06 PM | #17 |
cracker
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: north palm beach fl
Age: 32
Posts: 636
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
tony, i was on sandys boat that day and the pictures dont do that fish justice
__________________
"ya gotta want it" koah spearguns |
01-04-2008, 08:40 PM | #18 |
Forum Administrator
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 16,466
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
Ok ,then it was nice meeting you boat to boat.
__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu “Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.” ---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996 |
01-04-2008, 09:59 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,430
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
Nice work Tony!
|
01-05-2008, 07:29 AM | #20 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 1,904
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
Quote:
John |
|
01-05-2008, 09:00 AM | #21 | |
Forum Administrator
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 16,466
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
Quote:
I try my best to follow the "rule of thirds" from tech cave diving and apply it in my ocean diving. A third of the gas to get into the cave, a third to get out and a third left over for contingency. That is why I usually hit my deco bottle with over 1,000 psi of primary gas left in my tank (even though this is open water, not cave diving). I use an H-Valve tech set up with two regs, but carry that concept even one step further for safety with a redundant completely separate "bail-out" 19 cube pony bottle rig that is back mounted for spearfishing ease. I like solo spearfishing and take this extra safety measure which actually did come into use one time. My 80% oxygen deco bottle is also back mounted and not likely to be physically lost, but certainly could fail or lose its gas. In that case my contingency plan is to send up on my line a small see-me tube with a slate asking the boat to drop in the always present special 40 cube deco bottle I have attached to a special float with 30 feet of line on it.
__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu “Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.” ---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996 |
|
01-05-2008, 01:32 PM | #22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 1,904
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
Tony,
Here is the fallacy of your “contingency” plan, on more then one occasion (that you have admitted too) your boat has lost you (or visa versa). Therefore, you are diving without sufficient gas to complete the dive. Even on a flat calm day, there are 1000 failure points on a boat that could delay, or worse, its ability to “rescue” you, not to mention external variables that could keep the boat from getting to you in time. That cold front moves in a bit quicker then you anticipated and we are adding your name to the memorial list. Without seeing this “triple tank” rig you speak of, I need to ask (or actually you do) can you reach ALL of the valves to turn them on or off? Can you reach all of the first stages to swap them out if the need arises? The H-Valve is nice unless a neck o-ring failure occurs. Two years ago I would consider this rare, but since then I have had 3 neck o-ring failures (2 of which were just under a year old, and they failed within a week of each other) and my buddy had his doubles fail + a stage (all were properly maintained and VIP’ed every year). It’s good that you write about these dives, but you don’t seem to recognize the fact that you are leaving a whole lot to chance. These were just the glaring deficiencies and some idle thoughts. How many divers were lost this year conducting much less “technical” dives? Happy New Year. John |
01-05-2008, 01:51 PM | #23 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tequesta, FL
Posts: 1,191
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
Quote:
|
|
01-05-2008, 04:48 PM | #24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 1,904
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
|
01-05-2008, 10:48 PM | #25 | |||
Forum Administrator
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 16,466
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
Quote:
You must be doing something wrong as DiverLen says. Could it be over filling or bad maintenance or age of tanks or heat exposure or storage issues or valve degradation or lube incompatability or etc. etc. etc.? That is simply hard to fathom such a high failure rate. Quote:
http://www.spearboard.com/showthread...281#post626281 And this is one we heard about. Imagine the ones we don't hear about. Even the few times I had a boat separation I always had plenty of gas to complete the dive. That has never been an issue with me. The idea of getting oxygen from the boat is rarely an issue. I just was stating it is one contingency possibility. John, I think a tech diver has to draw the line somewhere, otherwise one would be carrying so much extra gas, the extra weight would become dangerous. A contingency arrangement is just that. When something happens you use it. If you overlap contingency possibility with contingency possibility, to try and achieve a fail-safe state, you can over do it in my opinion. There is clearly a risk-benefit balance that should be considered. Quote:
Thanks for your questions and definitely figure out why those neck rings are failing man. That may be reason for "nailbiting." Good luck! Tony
__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu “Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.” ---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996 Last edited by SpearMax; 01-05-2008 at 11:03 PM. |
|||
01-06-2008, 07:00 AM | #26 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Posts: 1,904
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
Quote:
Tony, You miss my point on the o-rings, the point was, these things happen, and in batches. Last year there seemed to be a higher then normal failure rate on the diaphragm of apkes 1sts, 2 years ago there were the SP Mk20 first stage failures, beginning of this year my LDS had the local fire dept bring in a group of Zeagle 1st stages that the turret o-rings were failing, US Divers HP seats, Oceanic 2nd stages…..the list goes on. You are all alone, 200 feet of water with a single tank and hope that the boat will find you with the gas you need in the event of a gas loss. Do you really think that 19 would give you any time at 200 with your breathing rate on that dive? I just get the feeling you have convinced yourself that “it cant happen to you”. As you say, Good luck. John |
|
01-06-2008, 08:31 AM | #27 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: On The Sea, With The Fishes
Posts: 539
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
Quote:
but I appreciate your post and what I learned from it.
__________________
Anybody seent my teefs and my jug? |
|
01-06-2008, 08:32 AM | #28 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: On The Sea, With The Fishes
Posts: 539
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
Quote:
__________________
Anybody seent my teefs and my jug? |
|
01-06-2008, 09:27 AM | #29 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tequesta, FL
Posts: 1,191
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
I have just finished rereading all of the posts on this thread and my conclusion is that what started out as a "fun sharing spearing experience" has denigrated into some kind of "you don't know what you are doing" lecture.
For whatever reason, I don't fully understand but I think I have a hint. I just want to say thanks for sharing that particular dive with us. I always find your posts to be informative and entertaining, so keep them coming so that we may learn from them. I know from experience in all of my years of diving, that for the most part, when folks make blunders they are very reluctant to tell others, as opposed to how you tell it like it is. Regarding divers being separated from their dive boat, I can truthfully say that it frequently happens but is hardly ever reported publically on an open forum. When folks speak negatively, something may being said which could cause one to look further into just why those commments are being made. That is, we are saying a lot about ourselves. Randy, I could use one of those free fish dinners. |
01-06-2008, 09:23 PM | #30 |
.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Palm Bch County
Posts: 11,256
|
Re: Ringing in the 2008 New Year - deep + dark + vampire teeth!
I think Jadairiii makes good points and I see no reason to suspect that he has some hidden agenda. His question was simply, what you gonna do if you loose the entire 80% deco bottle at the start of the 30 ft stop?
Since Tony has in-line shut-off valves, it is somewhat unlikley that a typical problem would cause the loss of all his deco mix, but it is not impossible. Tony had 400-500 psi in his 149 cu-ft tank at the 30 ft stop. An intelligent discussion should then include a calculation of how long the diver could deco using only the remaing air in the primary and also a small pony bottle. Only when both of those supplies are exhausted would the surface (boat) supplied oxygen become an issue. I'll let someone else do the math...
__________________
http://www.makospearguns.com/ My Youtube Channel -->https://www.youtube.com/user/whatandwhen2 |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|